Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: Logan on September 06, 2014, 02:49:12 AM
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“Many black immigrants do not identify with the historical experiences of discrimination encountered by blacks in the United States,” said Kevin D. Brown, a law professor at Indiana University’s Maurer School of Law.
Two generations removed from colonialism and legal segregation, said Dr. Khalil Gibran Muhammad, director of the New York Public Library’s Schomburg Center for Research in Black Culture, “the younger African immigrants tend to be less consciously ‘black’ and are somewhat reticent to link their fates with the history and contemporary protest traditions of African-Americans.”
“Selma doesn’t exactly cut it for them,” he said.
(http://www.jambonewspot.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/Africans-NY-460x360.png)
Kobina Aidoo, director of “The Neo-African-Americans,” a documentary, said, “I’ve heard people refer to themselves as everything from ‘African African-American’ to ‘Halfrican American’ to ‘White African-American’ to ‘Real African-American’ to ‘American African” to ‘Just black.’ ”
Dr. Muhammad, recalling the shooting by the police of Amadou Diallo, an unarmed immigrant from Guinea in the Bronx in 1999, and of Michael Brown, an unarmed teenager in Ferguson, Mo., last month, said color still trumped place of origin.
“Diversity among African-descended communities remains a black box and a mystery to most Americans,” he said. “Where public safety is concerned, black is all that matters.”
Mr. Bojang, who hopes to study law here after graduating from City College, said it might seem paradoxical that young Africans, who centuries ago arrived in chains, now dream of coming to America — but largely because the educational and economic opportunities are so much better than back home.
“So, if you look at the factors in place and contrast that with the conditions of the continuous struggle of the African-Americans for economic and social justice, it will be an error in judgment to say that the U.S. is becoming the Mecca for Africans.
“After all,” he said, “we are all Africans.”
http://www.jambonewspot.com/influx-african-immigrants-shifting-national-new-york-demographics/
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It cuts both ways I think. The Negro from the mother continent brings an alien life experience to the table. You cannot just transplant that and replace it with some other experience because you share skin color.
It's the same reason I do not expect the brothers here to have a different outlook from what their life has taught them. One can share experiences. But you cannot transplant them.
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I think negroes are mighty diverse than melanin would have us believe
But they still negroes
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You want to see black-on-black racism, visit that site: topix.com and search Akata threads on Africans in the USA. You will be seriously disabused of any false ideas regarding Akatas and Africans being the same people. There are some Akatas who want absolutely nothing to do with "the motherland", absolutely nothing.
From that admittedly very limited exposure to net Akatas, it seemed to me that Caribbean blacks were much more positively predisposed towards their African roots and identifying with Africans as their people. They are not forever whining that Africans sold them into slavery, something that seems like the standard Akata retort to afros every other sentence. I think it may probably be because they (Caribbean blacks) were somewhat allowed to retain some of their Africanness in culture etc than the American slaves and I think they were not separated as families as much as African Americans. Their family structures are intact, they don't have the African-American problem of scarcity of family stability. They are much closer to Africans than African Americans are to us, seems to me.
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Could we use words like black or African from now on please.
Visitors of this site will be scared away thinking there are racist skinhead members here.
We got the message along time ago, blacks are at the bottom of the pile Jeez! Drop the whole negro depreciation act already.
Its so pretentious to talk about your race with your nose in the air as if you are Nazis.
Do you refer to your family as negroes?
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kadame,
I think it has something to do with global prejudice against the have-nots. If you are broke and constantly begging for relief and aid, you won't be respected. Carribean negroes are not that far from thirdworld economically. So we have much in common with Bob Marley than Frank Sinatra.
I hear Eastern Europe bazungu are discriminated against in the UK as well..they countries are poor
You want to see black-on-black racism, visit that site: topix.com and search Akata threads on Africans in the USA. You will be seriously disabused of any false ideas regarding Akatas and Africans being the same people. There are some Akatas who want absolutely nothing to do with "the motherland", absolutely nothing.
From that admittedly very limited exposure to net Akatas, it seemed to me that Caribbean blacks were much more positively predisposed towards their African roots and identifying with Africans as their people. They are not forever whining that Africans sold them into slavery, something that seems like the standard Akata retort to afros every other sentence. I think it may probably be because they (Caribbean blacks) were somewhat allowed to retain some of their Africanness in culture etc than the American slaves and I think they were not separated as families as much as African Americans. Their family structures are intact, they don't have the African-American problem of scarcity of family stability. They are much closer to Africans than African Americans are to us, seems to me.
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Yes Veritas need to ban the word negro.
Could we use words like black or African from now on please.
Visitors of this site will be scared away thinking there are racist skinhead members here.
We got the message along time ago, blacks are at the bottom of the pile Jeez! Drop the whole negro depreciation act already.
Its so pretentious to talk about your race with your nose in the air as if you are Nazis.
Do you refer to your family as negroes?
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Done. Changed to 'human' or 'humans.'
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Done. Changed to 'human' or 'humans.'
Good work Veri, you are a smart human.
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Pundito said it tongue in cheek...that's censorship
Anybody visiting here who thinks negro is derogatory should be euthanized
Done. Changed to 'human' or 'humans.'
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veritas is abusing moderator powers. Negr.o is a perfectly acceptable word for a black bipedal hominid, even here in the US. It is not the N word.
I think one wants to tread very carefully when it comes to dealing with complaints. That way we don't find ourselves barely able to understand what we have "written".
@veritas,
Please reconsider banning that word.
Pundito said it tongue in cheek...that's censorship
Anybody visiting here who thinks human is derogatory should be euthanized
Done. Changed to 'human' or 'humans.'
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I agree. male version of negress simply means black. "N" word is matusi, negress is not. Mheshimiwa's problem is not with the word negress and such but with the views of vooke and Terminator regarding the negress and her male counterpart. He should challenge the views, as in any other debate but not change language to suit his views.
Veri, let us not start editing discussions. This is exctly why people did not want moderation.
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My problem is with the word, they can criticize & lecture blacks all day like the civilized dieties they believe they are, but words like neg.ro shouldn't be on a Kenyan board c'mon!!
We can take a vote to see whether the word should be banned or not but don't insist on resisting any form action moderators & Veri takes just for the sake of opposing.
I agree. male version of negress simply means black. "N" word is matusi, negress is not. Mheshimiwa's problem is not with the word negress and such but with the views of vooke and Terminator regarding the negress and her male counterpart. He should challenge the views, as in any other debate but not change language to suit his views.
Veri, let us not start editing discussions. This is exctly why people did not want moderation.
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Mheshimiwa, if your problem is with the word thn your problem is with the English language. You are equating niggger with neggro, they are not identical. If I start saying "the kikiyu" and his problems and generally indicate that I think Kikuyu comes with negative features then you will react the same way, but the issue will be my views of "kikuyu" not the word itself. Veritas shouldn't just use YOUR subjective understanding of a word in place of its objective meaning as a basis to ban a word that is not in any way derogatory. You realize that banning the word is essentially saying that the word is an insult. It just means black. Its like saying black is an insult. that in itself is self-denigration. the insulting word is Nigggar and it meant "dumb" not just black, as in, all black people are natural imbeciles. One might as well ban "Caucasian" if they are going to ban "neggro". I appreciate her noble intentions here but you have misled her, I have to say.
Even with the N word, niggger, I still have major issues with banning it out of hand. There are no KKK members here. its ridiculous to suggest that the site might be confused with one, that word hardly ever mentioned. And it can be used in a way that is not racist, CONTEXT is key. I could tell a story in which someone said it, for example. So I might use N*ger, for example.
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Its simple, members can vote if you really want to insist on defending this word.
Mheshimiwa, if your problem is with the word thn your problem is with the English language. You are equating niggger with neggro, they are not identical. If I start saying "the kikiyu" and his problems and generally indicate that I think Kikuyu comes with negative features then you will react the same way, but the issue will be my views of "kikuyu" not the word itself. Veritas shouldn't just use YOUR subjective understanding of a word in place of its objective meaning as a basis to ban a word that is not in any way derogatory. You realize that banning the word is essentially saying that the word is an insult. It just means black. Its like saying black is an insult. that in itself is self-denigration. the insulting word is Niggger. One might as well ban "Caucasian" if they are going to ban "neggro".
Even with the N word, niggger, I still have major issues with banning it out of hand. There are no KKK members here. its ridiculous to suggest that the site might be confused with one, that word hardly ever mentioned. And it can be used in a way that is not racist, CONTEXT is key.
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Veri, you're soon treading in dangerous zones when you start micro-managing.
This is not a smart move when one imposing individual- a well known jubilee NSI agent starts to dictate what we're
to post. :(
Yo need to relax and watch an argument develop before you rush into taking sides, or you will soon be slidding into the same slippery slopes you've been a victim to. How soon can you forget your past?
A mature moderator should be above involvement in simple fights, please.
My two cents.
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n.egro has a problem with n.egro word
Exactly what is the problem with the word
You soiled Omorlo's threads with stupid images and nobody banned you and here you are allergic to being a n.egro!
Grow up kid
Veritas,
You may have started the place but you are nobody's mother nor a thought police. Live and let live. It is mighty easy to lose people's respect
Or you want to convert this to another Onyango Oloo's crib?
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Nipate had no order, the place was covered in spam.
Posts like Mama Ngina making satanic sacrifices....its a waste of time discussing that site.
This is a different place, new rules...get that into your thick skull.
human has a problem with human word
Exactly what is the problem with the word
You soiled Omorlo's threads with stupid images and nobody banned you and here you are allergic to being a human!
Grow up kid
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There's no need for voting. Dictionary is free of charge.
Lets ban the N word (I concede), the F word, the S word, etc. But accurate social and scientific descriptions should not be banned, IMHO.Veri, you're soon treading in dangerous zones when you start micro-managing.
This is not a smart move when one imposing individual- a well known jubilee NSI agent starts to dictate what we're
to post. :(
Yo need to relax and watch an argument develop before you rush into taking sides, or you will soon be slidding into the same slippery slopes you've been a victim to. How soon can you forget your past?
A mature moderator should be above involvement in simple fights, please.
My two cents.
Logan, she was simply being responsive. She thought she was being fair to both by not pulling the thread but instead getting rid of the "problematic" word. I think next she will allow us to discuss and debate before coming to a consensus, like Mheshimiwa is suggesting we do here. In fact I agree, let us vote on it.
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Whats your point?
I have criticised my generation & race before, I am not seeking to white-wash or romanticize the nature & state of the black man....K
There's no need for voting. Dictionary is free of charge.
Lets ban the N word (I concede), the F word, the S word, etc. But accurate social and scientific descriptions should not be banned, IMHO.Veri, you're soon treading in dangerous zones when you start micro-managing.
This is not a smart move when one imposing individual- a well known jubilee NSI agent starts to dictate what we're
to post. :(
Yo need to relax and watch an argument develop before you rush into taking sides, or you will soon be slidding into the same slippery slopes you've been a victim to. How soon can you forget your past?
A mature moderator should be above involvement in simple fights, please.
My two cents.
Logan, she was simply being responsive. She thought she was being fair to both by not pulling the thread but instead getting rid of the "problematic" word. I think next she will allow us to discuss and debate before coming to a consensus, like Mheshimiwa is suggesting we do here. In fact I agree, let us vote on it.
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Mhesh, I am the last person you will catch tolerating views indicating that black people are inferior. My point is that you are attaching this meaning to the word "neg.ro" but it belongs with the other N word.
I don't know how to put a "sticky" thread up there but I think someone should start one where we discuss and agree on words to ban from this forum.
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Mhesh, I am the last person you will catch tolerating views indicating that black people are inferior. My point is that you are attaching this meaning to the word "neg.ro" but it belongs with the other N word.
I don't know how to put a "sticky" thread up there but I think someone should start one where we discuss and agree on words to ban from this forum.
Kababe, that's sad.
Soon, we will be into choosing whether Raila, Uhuru, or Ruto should be no go zones for criticism.
This is a free forum. Topics come and go depending on the interest they generate. So are the words.
The term "ignore" rings a bell? Live and Let Live!
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I agree, Logan. What I meant was words that are insults in common language, like the N word, f word and such. They don't necessarily have to be banned but we can decide for the sake of the forum's portfolio and everything, to ban them where they are not properly disguised.
Other proper English and scientific words should NOT be banned at all.
Mheshimiwa must learn to tolerate opposing views. I will roll up my sleeves and get in the ring with anyone any day who attacks any of my people (Blacks, Catholics, Women) and debate them to kingdom come, but I cannot ask the mod to enforce my preferences through the banning function.
vooke, take it easy on Veritas, she just made a quick decision when two members made a request. She has no interest in controlling the discussions, she has been EXTREMELY responsive to requests ever since the site came up, so tulia kidogo boss. She will set things right when she wakes up in Aussie land and reads the rest of the thread.
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the only thing worth banning is anything remotely harmful to any member or this site itself. Otherwise as Logan said, all it takes is enough Mheshimiwa grade goons to stifle thought
I will use the word n.egro till Jesus comes back for me
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the only thing worth banning is anything remotely harmful to any member or this site itself. Otherwise as Logan said, all it takes is enough Mheshimiwa grade goons to stifle thought
I will use the word n.egro till Jesus comes back for me
Agreed. For example,
1) Language banned by Google or the monetizing companies Veri intends to use.
2) Posting details of members on the board etc
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Could we use words like black or African from now on please.
Is it really that difficult to just use words like black or african or nyeuthi or mwafrika...really?
I make simple suggestion that we refrain from using the "N" word,
RVP comes along & tells Veri to ban the word & for the next 3 hours you lot have been going back & forth bringing up OO, Jukwaa, Mheshimiwa grade goons, Catholics, Dictionaries.....sigh...
Its a tag team battle & I am alone in the ring fighting against 4 opponents, wapi RVP I need to take a break.
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IS N.EGRO 'banned by Google or the monetizing companies Veri intends to use'?
the only thing worth banning is anything remotely harmful to any member or this site itself. Otherwise as Logan said, all it takes is enough Mheshimiwa grade goons to stifle thought
I will use the word n.egro till Jesus comes back for me
Agreed. For example,
1) Language banned by Google or the monetizing companies Veri intends to use.
2) Posting details of members on the board etc
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Sorry everyone. I thought it was agreed it was offensive and so I censored it. I'll uncensor now. Please send me a PM next time. I've been coding emoticons.
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Thanks, Veri. :D I knew you didn't have any OO tendencies :zen:
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Welcome Kababe, thanks for the heads up. I didn't realise censoring offensive words would trigger this. From now on I ain't censoring anything. I don't give a crap if you swear.
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IS N.EGRO 'banned by Google or the monetizing companies Veri intends to use'?
the only thing worth banning is anything remotely harmful to any member or this site itself. Otherwise as Logan said, all it takes is enough Mheshimiwa grade goons to stifle thought
I will use the word n.egro till Jesus comes back for me
Agreed. For example,
1) Language banned by Google or the monetizing companies Veri intends to use.
2) Posting details of members on the board etc
Honestly Vooke you think too much. It was an honest error on my part. I read the last post by RVP and assumed everyone agreed the word was offensive. I need a PA to read through posts.
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I've read through this thread thoroughly now, and it seems there are members who do find N words offensive. In respect, I have put a poll up. Whichever the majority vote I shall proceed accordingly. I do apologise for censoring before without consulting members. It won't happen again.
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Negro is Okay but Akata is not Okay and is far worse than the "N" word. My problem is with Africans from motherland who think they understand African Americans and so they try to patronize them on one hand and on the other hand with African Americans who think they understand African's from motherland and look down on them. The African Americans and Africans from motherland who understand and respects each others history are my kind of people. I have found out that when it comes to the issue of race relations in American, African Americans understand best how to deal with bazungu in America and I defer to them or take their lead on such matters. When it comes it issues of colonialism, Africans from motherland understand it best. I think we can combine our experience and learn how to deal with bazungu in a much better way than each of us using their one dimensional view of bazungu to deal with them in a comprehensive way. Both of our experiences gives us a better view of bazungu than bazungu can possible have on us.
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Veri, you're soon treading in dangerous zones when you start micro-managing.
This is not a smart move when one imposing individual- a well known jubilee NSI agent starts to dictate what we're
to post. :(
Yo need to relax and watch an argument develop before you rush into taking sides, or you will soon be slidding into the same slippery slopes you've been a victim to. How soon can you forget your past?
A mature moderator should be above involvement in simple fights, please.
My two cents.
Good Lawd, how long have I been away...before people start fighting? I agree with Logan. Veri shouldn't be heeding at each and every petty issue as if this is a high school. We are grown folks for goodness sake and self moderation should be allowed as much as possible otherwise you border on censoring and thats not pretty. We also need to ask ourselves, who the audience is for this forum before we start figuring what is offensive to who.
I dont see anything wrong with all those words n.gro, human, akata etc..... African americans refer to themselves as negro. Akata, I thought was a naija description of AA not necessarily derogatory...human...i don't really know what the problem is. People stop being petty, overly sensitive and start blogging about issues. nuff said. My only issue is if people get personal when it isn't really necessary.
@Veri, the poll is a good tool to gauge the mood of the forum.
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veritas is abusing moderator powers. Negr.o is a perfectly acceptable word for a black bipedal hominid, even here in the US. It is not the N word.
I think one wants to tread very carefully when it comes to dealing with complaints. That way we don't find ourselves barely able to understand what we have "written".
@veritas,
Please reconsider banning that word.
Pundito said it tongue in cheek...that's censorship
Anybody visiting here who thinks human is derogatory should be euthanized
Done. Changed to 'human' or 'humans.'
Termi
I think she is trying to cater to everyones needs and that is why she is being pulled in all directions. Growing pains of a blog owner. People just need to grow up and stop being petty...really.
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I think Veri is doing the right thing by being concerned about peoples concerns. I find Akata and Ni--er highly offensive but negro to be a term of endearment.
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Kadame, I think you raised some very appealing issues here. The akata resentment curiously surprised me when Obama won his first democratic nomination in 2007. I think we all remember, and can understand Bill Clinton's frustration when he said:
"Give me a break. This whole thing is the biggest fairy tale I’ve ever seen.”
Bill's wife Hillary was until Obama showed up, the anointed nominee for her party... :o
But a report soon leaked to the internet reveals that what Jackson said was far worse:
His off-air comments in relation to Barack Obama was that he wanted to ''cut his nuts out'', and that he was ''talking down to black people''.
Most AA who did not vote for Obama in 2008, and there are quite a few, resented that being the son of a kenyan father and a white mother affected his AA authenticity because his parents did not suffer same "slavery background" like the true AAs.
This in effect is the same resentment us Africans receive from AAs. They don't think we understand their plight, and like Termie and vooke mentioned, ignore our attempt to integrate.
You want to see black-on-black racism, visit that site: topix.com and search Akata threads on Africans in the USA. You will be seriously disabused of any false ideas regarding Akatas and Africans being the same people. There are some Akatas who want absolutely nothing to do with "the motherland", absolutely nothing.
From that admittedly very limited exposure to net Akatas, it seemed to me that Caribbean blacks were much more positively predisposed towards their African roots and identifying with Africans as their people. They are not forever whining that Africans sold them into slavery, something that seems like the standard Akata retort to afros every other sentence. I think it may probably be because they (Caribbean blacks) were somewhat allowed to retain some of their Africanness in culture etc than the American slaves and I think they were not separated as families as much as African Americans. Their family structures are intact, they don't have the African-American problem of scarcity of family stability. They are much closer to Africans than African Americans are to us, seems to me.
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I think an AA in the streets understands the issues of race relations in America than any African from mother land with PHD. The problem with educated Africans is that they think they know more than AA's when it comes to race relations just because of their education. This stuff is very cultural and trying to substitute that culture with education is a big mistakes. The same way I would not want an AA to lecture me about tribal politics in Africa no matter how educated they are is the same way AA's do not take it kindly when some know it all African think they can lecture an AA about race relations in America.
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I think an AA in the streets understands the issues of race relations in America than any African from mother land with PHD. The problem with educated Africans is that they think they know more than AA's when it comes to race relations just because of their education. This stuff is very cultural and trying to substitute that culture with education is a big mistakes. The same way I would not want an AA to lecture me about tribal politics in Africa no matter how educated they are is the same way AA's do not take it kindly when some know it all African think they can lecture an AA about race relations in America.
Which "educated" African is educating AA on race relations in the US? We are making observations on attitudes of some AA towards people from Africa. Would you prefer we pretend we don't notice it or we pretend that AA have nothing negative about them? Or Africans have no right to complain when they meet with discrimination from AA or AA from Africans....?
Its one thing to defend AA views on their History, its quite another to expect African views to be buried unless they are talking about Africa. After all, they are also part of American culture now and they have their own experiences, views and perceptions of what they see around them. African Americans are not a sacred cow that can never be criticized by anyone but themselves, and neither are Africans or the Caribbeans for that matter.
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Although I have voted to keep the word, I still think the context in which it is being used on the forum is to denigrate and amplify the perceived shortcomings people of colour.
Which is not nice.
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I just think it is a violation of freedom of speech to prohibit the use of words. Any word(s)!