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Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on June 05, 2022, 01:50:05 PM

Title: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 05, 2022, 01:50:05 PM
You have to thank Uhuru for restraining him this elections otherwise he isn't in his inciteful elements.

He wants kalenjin out of Nakuru, Uasin gishu, Narok and now Nairobi. Just because he knows he aint getting Kalenjin votes.

If this man was to be PORK; kenya could have gone to civil war long time ago.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Pajero on June 05, 2022, 01:53:41 PM
He should limit using that word.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 05, 2022, 01:57:40 PM
You're talking about Raila whose foot is permanently stuck in his mouth.

He cannot control himself - he is really really trying - because Uhuru and Gideon are financing him - that only good thing.

He should limit using that word.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 05, 2022, 02:23:05 PM
Invalid Tweet ID
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Njuri Ncheke on June 05, 2022, 03:21:45 PM
Baba really meant what he said. We want same treatment Linturi got to befall him, otherwise all hell will break loose and UDA shouldn't hold back. It twice Baba is saying that in just 3 months and nothing happens
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 05, 2022, 03:30:21 PM
Yeah if Ruto was to say anything near there; they will rush to ICC; and name it. The double standards are sickening.
Baba really meant what he said. We want same treatment Linturi got to befall him, otherwise all hell will break loose and UDA shouldn't hold back. It twice Baba is saying that in just 3 months and nothing happens
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 05, 2022, 03:31:57 PM
But kibera ni kama wamechoka
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Nowayhaha on June 05, 2022, 03:47:06 PM
Raila ia trying 2007 card . Thats how he incited Kenyans back then.
Then he called GEMA madoa doa . Now he has turned around and called his opponents Madoa Doa..
Last time when Linturi used that name Ruto was forced to apologize. Now that Raila has used it where are the Hawks ?
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 05, 2022, 04:08:30 PM
He is quite restrained; give me more time; and he will as always hang himself
Raila ia trying 2007 card . Thats how he incited Kenyans back then.
Then he called GEMA madoa doa . Now he has turned around and called his opponents Madoa Doa..
Last time when Linturi used that name Ruto was forced to apologize. Now that Raila has used it where are the Hawks ?
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: patel on June 05, 2022, 04:09:25 PM
Ken Okoth exposed Raila incompetence, lack of managerial skills and ability to harness resources to improve his constituent livelihood. Ken transformed kibra within a short time something Raila could not do in a thousand years.

But kibera ni kama wamechoka
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: patel on June 05, 2022, 04:12:48 PM
First thing first..how do you run a campaign without message? Why does Raila want to be president in 2022? Nobody knows. Big political advisors Joho the pedophile and Junet kemsa billionaire.
He is quite restrained; give me more time; and he will as always hang himself
Raila ia trying 2007 card . Thats how he incited Kenyans back then.
Then he called GEMA madoa doa . Now he has turned around and called his opponents Madoa Doa..
Last time when Linturi used that name Ruto was forced to apologize. Now that Raila has used it where are the Hawks ?
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on June 06, 2022, 02:00:02 AM
Madoadoa is an archaic term that has no place in modern Kenyans politics, Raila is turning into a senile old fart, he loves using that word. He should not demoralize his supporters in RV and the wider Kalenjin diaspora with such foolish utterances.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on June 06, 2022, 03:07:49 AM
Except Kenya Kwanza team to use that to whip Nairobi until 300K votes flip in Nairobi, RV and the mountain.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on June 06, 2022, 03:46:10 AM
He was referring to six piece voting.  Not Kalenjin.  But you already know that.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Pragmatic on June 06, 2022, 03:50:07 AM
Exactly and we have here fellows running away with misrepresentation and thinking we will be fooled.

He had full awareness of what he was saying and meant........ he didn’t goof or stutter. It was a perfectly well placed call and use of the right word for what he wanted to communicate.

He was referring to six piece voting.  Not Kalenjin.  But you already know that.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on June 06, 2022, 05:03:29 AM
First thing first..how do you run a campaign without message? Why does Raila want to be president in 2022? Nobody knows. Big political advisors Joho the pedophile and Junet kemsa billionaire.

Stop Kalenjin - Kikuyu hegemony first  :D How can we be a nation when 2 tribes rotate the presidency.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on June 06, 2022, 05:05:06 AM
I stand corrected, I thought Raila used Madoadoa in the classic sense of hostile minority tribe living in the midst of a larger tribe.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on June 06, 2022, 05:12:08 AM
I stand corrected, I thought Raila used Madoadoa in the classic sense of hostile minority tribe living in the midst of a larger tribe.
Yes that is what he meant.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 06, 2022, 07:02:52 AM
Six piece in Nairobi where any party can win... madodoa is bad word due to its history and should never be used...he should simply ask his supporters to elect jalango in langata.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: gout on June 06, 2022, 12:01:44 PM
To be fair to babaman his World Bank slum upgrading is way to go. You cannot transform that shit by one secondary school. Serious 6-7 storeys housing project with locked in ownership (huwezi uza for a 100 years maybe) to free up the land is way to go. Good water and sewerage, more schools and hospitals. 
Going by census data these people just in other Nairobi slums are living worse than animals lounging in so much land in parks including in the ridiculous NNP.
Laini Saba
Population - 29, 605
Land size in acres - 89
People per acre- 331

Sarang'ombe
Population - 55, 303
Land size in acres - 243
People per acre- 228

Kibera
Population - 120,057
Land size in acres - 530
People per acre- 227

Ken Okoth exposed Raila incompetence, lack of managerial skills and ability to harness resources to improve his constituent livelihood. Ken transformed kibra within a short time something Raila could not do in a thousand years.

Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: einstein_g on June 06, 2022, 02:35:39 PM
Last time I logged in here was January. I only came in as guest a couple times last month. And the reason is, as much as I'm a believer in numbers/science, and therefore RV's MOAS generally, this time I felt that I couldn't fully trust the MOAS since RV was clearly over-excited over mtu ya nyumbani. Saying sijui govt people will go to sleep and wake up at some ungodly hours smh. Allow me to be politically incorrect -- maybe this level of passion is a nilotic thing?

I decided to give it a few months for RV's signal response to damp down a bit lol.

I made a decision to support Azimio, because as much as I appreciate WSR's talents, I vehemently disagreed with his conduct over the past 5 years, and no one should even attempt to rationalize it to me. I believed in January that yes, there's a place for numbers, but one can also analyse things qualitatively/instinctively. Like biz people who don't do any market research and go by pure instinct.

But now this our Azimio general exhibits foot & mouth disease, ironically at odds with the mission of his movement, whose ideals I (maybe naively) bought into. For the 2nd time in 3 months. Seems like I'm the only one in Azimio really bothered by this. I feel like vomiting for 2 weeks straight.


You're talking about Raila whose foot is permanently stuck in his mouth.

He cannot control himself - he is really really trying - because Uhuru and Gideon are financing him - that only good thing.

He should limit using that word.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 06, 2022, 02:56:58 PM
I am acutely aware of my confirmation bias - and I believe I over-compensate by lowering Ruto numbers. As for Raila - prepare for more of the same - Raila will say stupid things almost everyday - and will see that support go away. Last time he messed up big time in Kajiado - sending Gusii to Jubilee - when he told everyone to go to their place and give Maasai their land. Raila live for the moment - he cannot think beyond now. He see a crowd - he is given talking points - he blurt them out. The team will do the clean up. I supported in 2007 - and Ruto spend most of the time clean up his messes - otherwise expect him to say things that will reveal his true colours.
Last time I logged in here was January. I only came in as guest a couple times last month. And the reason is, as much as I'm a believer in numbers/science, and therefore RV's MOAS generally, this time I felt that I couldn't fully trust the MOAS since RV was clearly over-excited over mtu ya nyumbani. Saying sijui govt people will go to sleep and wake up at some ungodly hours smh. Allow me to be politically incorrect -- maybe this level of passion is a nilotic thing?

I decided to give it a few months for RV's signal response to damp down a bit lol.

I made a decision to support Azimio, because as much as I appreciate WSR's talents, I vehemently disagreed with his conduct over the past 5 years, and no one should even attempt to rationalize it to me. I believed in January that yes, there's a place for numbers, but one can also analyse things qualitatively/instinctively. Like biz people who don't do any market research and go by pure instinct.

But now this our Azimio general exhibits foot & mouth disease, ironically at odds with the mission of his movement, whose ideals I (maybe naively) bought into. For the 2nd time in 3 months. Seems like I'm the only one in Azimio really bothered by this. I feel like vomiting for 2 weeks straight.


You're talking about Raila whose foot is permanently stuck in his mouth.

He cannot control himself - he is really really trying - because Uhuru and Gideon are financing him - that only good thing.

He should limit using that word.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: einstein_g on June 06, 2022, 03:02:11 PM
I can't believe I'm saying this, but there's a 20% chance I might decamp from Azimio. Let me give it 1 - 2 weeks.

I am acutely aware of my confirmation bias - and I believe I over-compensate by lowering Ruto numbers. As for Raila - prepare for more of the same - Raila will say stupid things almost everyday - and will see that support go away. Last time he messed up big time in Kajiado - sending Gusii to Jubilee - when he told everyone to go to their place and give Maasai their land. Raila live for the moment - he cannot think beyond now. He see a crowd - he is given talking points - he blurt them out. The team will do the clean up. I supported in 2007 - and Ruto spend most of the time clean up his messes - otherwise expect him to say things that will reveal his true colours.
Last time I logged in here was January. I only came in as guest a couple times last month. And the reason is, as much as I'm a believer in numbers/science, and therefore RV's MOAS generally, this time I felt that I couldn't fully trust the MOAS since RV was clearly over-excited over mtu ya nyumbani. Saying sijui govt people will go to sleep and wake up at some ungodly hours smh. Allow me to be politically incorrect -- maybe this level of passion is a nilotic thing?

I decided to give it a few months for RV's signal response to damp down a bit lol.

I made a decision to support Azimio, because as much as I appreciate WSR's talents, I vehemently disagreed with his conduct over the past 5 years, and no one should even attempt to rationalize it to me. I believed in January that yes, there's a place for numbers, but one can also analyse things qualitatively/instinctively. Like biz people who don't do any market research and go by pure instinct.

But now this our Azimio general exhibits foot & mouth disease, ironically at odds with the mission of his movement, whose ideals I (maybe naively) bought into. For the 2nd time in 3 months. Seems like I'm the only one in Azimio really bothered by this. I feel like vomiting for 2 weeks straight.


You're talking about Raila whose foot is permanently stuck in his mouth.

He cannot control himself - he is really really trying - because Uhuru and Gideon are financing him - that only good thing.

He should limit using that word.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: einstein_g on June 06, 2022, 03:09:05 PM
And my rationale is this: I'd rather people that steal but have some discipline, than people who can outright collapse government. That marriage with Martha Karua could go bad real soon if RAO is not disciplined.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but there's a 20% chance I might decamp from Azimio. Let me give it 1 - 2 weeks.

I am acutely aware of my confirmation bias - and I believe I over-compensate by lowering Ruto numbers. As for Raila - prepare for more of the same - Raila will say stupid things almost everyday - and will see that support go away. Last time he messed up big time in Kajiado - sending Gusii to Jubilee - when he told everyone to go to their place and give Maasai their land. Raila live for the moment - he cannot think beyond now. He see a crowd - he is given talking points - he blurt them out. The team will do the clean up. I supported in 2007 - and Ruto spend most of the time clean up his messes - otherwise expect him to say things that will reveal his true colours.
Last time I logged in here was January. I only came in as guest a couple times last month. And the reason is, as much as I'm a believer in numbers/science, and therefore RV's MOAS generally, this time I felt that I couldn't fully trust the MOAS since RV was clearly over-excited over mtu ya nyumbani. Saying sijui govt people will go to sleep and wake up at some ungodly hours smh. Allow me to be politically incorrect -- maybe this level of passion is a nilotic thing?

I decided to give it a few months for RV's signal response to damp down a bit lol.

I made a decision to support Azimio, because as much as I appreciate WSR's talents, I vehemently disagreed with his conduct over the past 5 years, and no one should even attempt to rationalize it to me. I believed in January that yes, there's a place for numbers, but one can also analyse things qualitatively/instinctively. Like biz people who don't do any market research and go by pure instinct.

But now this our Azimio general exhibits foot & mouth disease, ironically at odds with the mission of his movement, whose ideals I (maybe naively) bought into. For the 2nd time in 3 months. Seems like I'm the only one in Azimio really bothered by this. I feel like vomiting for 2 weeks straight.


You're talking about Raila whose foot is permanently stuck in his mouth.

He cannot control himself - he is really really trying - because Uhuru and Gideon are financing him - that only good thing.

He should limit using that word.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Heavy Hitter! on June 06, 2022, 06:52:52 PM
Naskia wamesema hii iko na madoadoa mingi....lakini naona iko sawa  tu...🤣 Generalli Mwenyewe Nixon Korir.
(https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/285293500_563061351844606_1307578955249164457_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=-CJWuNXgbjkAX8D-USe&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=00_AT_M50A_yYFC8uzP5Bh9U-Y1hrB80Mp3o3sginey2XwCzg&oe=62A35D44)
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on June 06, 2022, 09:32:52 PM
And my rationale is this: I'd rather people that steal but have some discipline, than people who can outright collapse government. That marriage with Martha Karua could go bad real soon if RAO is not disciplined.

 :D You don't get where Baba is without discipline and grit.  No need to excuse or even explain your choice.  You like the thief? vote for him.  You like Baba? same thing.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 06, 2022, 09:47:32 PM
When you name is Odinga - you can get there. When you name is Kenyatta - you can get there. When you name is Moi - you can get there. These are dynasties who inherit their parent political networth together with their properties.

People close to him have said as much.
Salim Lone.
Miguna Miguna
Orengo.
Sally Kosgey.

Salim Lone

 Salim Lone "Odinga has made it this far in politics by the force of his personality without having to demonstrate management acumen"

:D You don't get where Baba is without discipline and grit.  No need to excuse or even explain your choice.  You like the thief? vote for him.  You like Baba? same thing.

Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 06, 2022, 09:50:19 PM
Raila weakness are all documented. Miguna has written a detailed book on Raila and his inner dealings - he is totally indiscipline - but not as drug addict like Uhuru.

Wikileaks.

. (C)Regarding the Prime Minister, Kosgei believes that
Odinga truly wants to achieve the reform agenda but does not
have the organizational discipline to do so.  &Raila has no
office structure, no discipline in his life or schedule,8
Kosgei commented, and quoted former advisor Salim Lone as
observing that Odinga has made it this far in politics by the
force of his personality without having to demonstrate
managerial acumen. Though Odinga,s advisors are well
intentioned, most don,t have government experience and he
tends to surround himself with fellow ethnic Luos, Kosgei
observed.  Odinga is unwilling to sack corrupt deputies, and
is overly focused on protocol issues and ODM inclusion in
appointment decisions such that it distracts his attention
from the broader reform agenda.  Though Kosgei and other
ministers have access to Odinga, he often agrees to meet late
at night when he is tired and unfocused.  Close advisors to
Odinga include the ODM whip Jakowo Midiwo, Agriculture
Minister William Ruto, several members of Odinga,s extended
family, and his wife Ida.
 
----------------------
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on June 06, 2022, 11:45:22 PM
And my rationale is this: I'd rather people that steal but have some discipline, than people who can outright collapse government. That marriage with Martha Karua could go bad real soon if RAO is not disciplined.

 :D You don't get where Baba is without discipline and grit.  No need to excuse or even explain your choice.  You like the thief? vote for him.  You like Baba? same thing.

Itumbi bots  :D He was so obvious.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on June 07, 2022, 12:45:41 AM
Raila weakness are all documented. Miguna has written a detailed book on Raila and his inner dealings - he is totally indiscipline - but not as drug addict like Uhuru.

Wikileaks.

. (C)Regarding the Prime Minister, Kosgei believes that
Odinga truly wants to achieve the reform agenda but does not
have the organizational discipline to do so.  &Raila has no
office structure, no discipline in his life or schedule,8
Kosgei commented, and quoted former advisor Salim Lone as
observing that Odinga has made it this far in politics by the
force of his personality without having to demonstrate
managerial acumen. Though Odinga,s advisors are well
intentioned, most don,t have government experience and he
tends to surround himself with fellow ethnic Luos, Kosgei
observed.  Odinga is unwilling to sack corrupt deputies, and
is overly focused on protocol issues and ODM inclusion in
appointment decisions such that it distracts his attention
from the broader reform agenda.  Though Kosgei and other
ministers have access to Odinga, he often agrees to meet late
at night when he is tired and unfocused.  Close advisors to
Odinga include the ODM whip Jakowo Midiwo, Agriculture
Minister William Ruto, several members of Odinga,s extended
family, and his wife Ida.
 
----------------------


Sally Kosgey ran Moi's regime in its last tattered days.  She owns that mess.  Rich coming from her.  Suppose Baba is all those things these disgruntled fellows call him, what does it say about the hustler(who was an insider "sleepwalking to his ten years") until kicked out by a "disorganized, undisciplined..whatever other epithet comes to mind" textbook outsider?
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on June 07, 2022, 02:50:00 AM

Sally Kosgey ran Moi's regime in its last tattered days.  She owns that mess.  Rich coming from her.  Suppose Baba is all those things these disgruntled fellows call him, what does it say about the hustler(who was an insider "sleepwalking to his ten years") until kicked out by a "disorganized, undisciplined..whatever other epithet comes to mind" textbook outsider?

No one other than UDA fanboys praise Ruto as exceptional or hardworking. Kinda how every mother thinks her child is the best, Ruto is a mediocre power hungry ruffian.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 07, 2022, 08:33:34 AM
Sally kosgey is stanford educuated workhorse; and when she says Raila cant run nothing; she knows it; she is not miguna type; even now she is Raila camp;
Same with Salim Lone or Orengo..that criticism is coming from good heart.

As for Ruto/Raila duel - let see on august who come tops - someoene who has been at it for 40yrs - versus someone making his maiden run.

Sally Kosgey ran Moi's regime in its last tattered days.  She owns that mess.  Rich coming from her.  Suppose Baba is all those things these disgruntled fellows call him, what does it say about the hustler(who was an insider "sleepwalking to his ten years") until kicked out by a "disorganized, undisciplined..whatever other epithet comes to mind" textbook outsider?
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on June 07, 2022, 08:45:06 AM
Sally kosgey is stanford educuated workhorse; and when she says Raila cant run nothing; she knows it; she is not miguna type; even now she is Raila camp;
Same with Salim Lone or Orengo..that criticism is coming from good heart.

As for Ruto/Raila duel - let see on august who come tops - someoene who has been at it for 40yrs - versus someone making his maiden run.

Kale don't have a good track record of running government institutions, or anything government related - don't start a fight you can't win.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 07, 2022, 08:55:50 AM
Moi is not kalenjin.Moi was a primary dropout who really tried to run things.
Kale don't have a good track record of running government institutions, or anything government related - don't start a fight you can't win.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on June 07, 2022, 12:07:44 PM
Sally kosgey is stanford educuated workhorse; and when she says Raila cant run nothing; she knows it; she is not miguna type; even now she is Raila camp;
Same with Salim Lone or Orengo..that criticism is coming from good heart.

As for Ruto/Raila duel - let see on august who come tops - someoene who has been at it for 40yrs - versus someone making his maiden run.

Sally Kosgey ran Moi's regime in its last tattered days.  She owns that mess.  Rich coming from her.  Suppose Baba is all those things these disgruntled fellows call him, what does it say about the hustler(who was an insider "sleepwalking to his ten years") until kicked out by a "disorganized, undisciplined..whatever other epithet comes to mind" textbook outsider?

Stanford educated and owner of the last legs of Moi mess.  Still rich coming from her.  That she is still with baba is even more dismissive of her own commentary. 

You were just as assured of hustler control of state instruments as you are of his “upcoming victory” until Matiang”is, Kibichos et al started shitting on his knob.  Courtesy of someone with no legitimate claims to those same instruments,.  They have been  running around him for a while, but you’ll never see it. 
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants on June 07, 2022, 12:10:47 PM
Moi is not kalenjin.Moi was a primary dropout who really tried to run things.
Kale don't have a good track record of running government institutions, or anything government related - don't start a fight you can't win.

Moi was Tugen.  Very much Kalenjin last time I checked.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 07, 2022, 12:30:07 PM
You missed an article there. Moi is a Kalenjin. Moi is not Kalenjin. Failure of Moi to run things doesnt mean Ruto cannot.
Moi was Tugen.  Very much Kalenjin last time I checked.
Title: Re: Raila now refer to kalenjin as madodoa in langata
Post by: RV Pundit on June 07, 2022, 12:32:06 PM
Salim lone, Orengo, Miguna, name it - no need arguing - Raila has no discipline or management skills.

As for Ruto - 5yrs - combined force of state+Raila - he still surviving - actually thriving.

Let's see in two months - who wins.

We already know who has lost countless times before.

Stanford educated and owner of the last legs of Moi mess.  Still rich coming from her.  That she is still with baba is even more dismissive of her own commentary. 

You were just as assured of hustler control of state instruments as you are of his “upcoming victory” until Matiang”is, Kibichos et al started shitting on his knob.  Courtesy of someone with no legitimate claims to those same instruments,.  They have been  running around him for a while, but you’ll never see it.