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Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: RV Pundit on September 05, 2021, 06:07:25 PM

Title: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 05, 2021, 06:07:25 PM
In 2014 - Nigeria imported 80 percent of all foods.
In 2020 - it's gone down to 20 percent.

https://nigeriafarmersgroup.org/about/about-anchor-borrowers-program/

One such programme - is lending to cooperative of farmers

 https://nigeriafarmersgroup.org/about/about-anchor-borrowers-program/
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 05, 2021, 06:09:33 PM
Q: WHAT ARE THE CONDITIONS FOR QUALIFICATION?
A. Intending Beneficiary must be a fully registered member of the Cooperative.
B. Intending Beneficiary must maintain an FCMB account with at least a balance of N2,000.
C. Intending Beneficiary must sign an undertaking to have a lien placed on their account if they qualify for the program. The lien will limit them from withdrawing from the account until the provided funds is used for the purpose it was provided.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: vooke on September 06, 2021, 01:23:28 PM
Nice sexy concept for nascent industry. Hapa we have tried just about everything so I'm not sure how it would plug in. Take maize. There's no incentive you can throw to make it cheaper/internationally competitive. We import because ours are bloody expensive.

I think what we need is experimenting new stuff
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 06, 2021, 01:49:57 PM
I think two things; open up for international competition; then support farmers; and the let the chips fall wherever.
In old days of KFA - I believe maize farming was profitable.
And as much as we may not like it - we have more than 8M people whose "career" is farming or livestock keeping.
That is largest segment of bottom-down.
So we have to think about how gov can assist them with cheap loans and organize them into cooperatives - and the benefit from economies of scale.

Cheap loans - Quality Inputs - and then Crop Insurance - and voila we will be fine.

But first all the 8million farmers need to be organized into cooperatives and groups.

Next we move to Boda-Boda - who now maybe - 1M of them. As security measures it's critical the sector get some regulation. We have to force them into SACCOS, force them to wear some uniform of a Sacco and then as incentive assist them with cheap loans - to buy boda boda - and to save up.

Next we move to your Mpesa lady  - the urban hawker - the mechanic.

All of them need to belong to SACCO/Cooperative - before they can be assisted.

In Uganda - all hawkers wear uniform - and are self-organized. The same way we copied Matatu organization from them - we need to copy how to organize informal sector - into legitimate self-respecting self-regulating business.

Nice sexy concept for nascent industry. Hapa we have tried just about everything so I'm not sure how it would plug in. Take maize. There's no incentive you can throw to make it cheaper/internationally competitive. We import because ours are bloody expensive.

I think what we need is experimenting new stuff
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 06, 2021, 01:56:38 PM
Uganda - Kampala - street vendors and hawkers will be expected to have uniforms - I think each division or hawkers sacco should have uniform of certain branding - and the sacco officials should work with City or Town Council - so we do not have chase them like they are criminals

Kampala.

The ordinance further proposes that all traders be given uniforms and specific colors, according to the division they operate from. Vendors in Central division will wear a green uniform, Nakawa blue, Lubaga Orange, Kawempe Red and Makindye division Yellow.


Look here SafeBoda have hawkers - these boda and hawkers - can be organized, be orderly, and they can benefit from loans and live a dignified life - even if their fortunes wont turn around so much.


(http://[tweet]1237259948578557952[/tweet]/photo/1)
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: Georgesoros on September 06, 2021, 10:02:10 PM
Nice sexy concept for nascent industry. Hapa we have tried just about everything so I'm not sure how it would plug in. Take maize. There's no incentive you can throw to make it cheaper/internationally competitive. We import because ours are bloody expensive.

I think what we need is experimenting new stuff

Food is expensive because of land flippers. Buy acre-divide it into 1/8ths - sell. Go somewhere else and repeat. MEanwhile those fifty acres are out. They cant produce affordable food, so we import. The owners dont even pay any tax after purchase. SAD thing is policy makers are teh ones doing it.

HOW come all these years Ruto has never come up and fought for farmers???
Yes. That is the reason.
He was busy competing witht them using govt resources.
The guy has no policy, except for "me myself and I"
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: gout on September 06, 2021, 11:43:44 PM
Land rates and unused land penalties or something of that sort can be increased and ringfenced to be given to farmers.

This would be an easy way of counties and Ruto to hit on the dynasties and help the hustling farmers. It is also likely to free up idle land in the hands of the big landowners who can lease and chop it up. Heck, the rates can be calculated back to 1920 if it will be about vengeance.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: gout on September 06, 2021, 11:50:41 PM
Resolving the hasora issues does not even require government funding. Just a common sense regulatory policy. Any business with customers rarely requires loans unless it is for expansion at which point you will get a rentable premise.

In Dar the hawkers clean up their trash from the streets because they are not bothered but in Nairobi they cannot even have a broom or a smal waste bin- they will be arrested for littering/ dumping😂😂😂 Total madness!

Makangas do not want to don their uniforms because once they step out of the vehicle they can be extorted by anybody in the streets.

Uganda - Kampala - street vendors and hawkers will be expected to have uniforms - I think each division or hawkers sacco should have uniform of certain branding - and the sacco officials should work with City or Town Council - so we do not have chase them like they are criminals

Kampala.

The ordinance further proposes that all traders be given uniforms and specific colors, according to the division they operate from. Vendors in Central division will wear a green uniform, Nakawa blue, Lubaga Orange, Kawempe Red and Makindye division Yellow.


Look here SafeBoda have hawkers - these boda and hawkers - can be organized, be orderly, and they can benefit from loans and live a dignified life - even if their fortunes wont turn around so much.


(http://[tweet]1237259948578557952[/tweet]/photo/1)
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 06, 2021, 11:57:13 PM
Agreed. I am against gov regulating matatu or hawkers directly - but self-regulation. Therefore the police if they notice certain hawker sacco are floating rules - they punish the saccos. The sacco official therefore should regulate their own.

It's like a company. If Kanjo arrived at our company -and find violation - it doesnt go around chasing everyone in the building - and hunting them down like rats. It simply ask the CEO and they sort the issues.

The same need to happen in informal sector. These SACCOS will become like companies - and these hawkers, mechanics, makangas - become employees of SACCOS - the sacco then regulate them - expelling anyone who doesnt for example follow the rules. The gov if they notice a SACCO is violating - they can be kicked out for say a week - until they improve.

So SACCOS - Uniform of the SACCO - and then SACCOs are given a street - if they are mechanics - they are given an area.

Resolving the hasora issues does not even require government funding. Just a common sense regulatory policy. Any business with customers rarely requires loans unless it is for expansion at which point you will get a rentable premise.

In Dar the hawkers clean up their trash from the streets because they are not bothered but in Nairobi they cannot even have a broom or a smal waste bin- they will be arrested for littering/ dumping😂😂😂 Total madness!

Makangas do not want to don their uniforms because once they step out of the vehicle they can be extorted by anybody in the streets.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 07, 2021, 12:04:37 AM
But why do we want to add quantity of land under farming; while our productivity is 5 times less than Asia or Europe. Using the current land under cultivation - we can improve the agriculture 5 times - by simply applying 5 times the fertilizers - using quality seeds - embracing GMO and applying required pesticides - better agronomy - and of course figuring out the market for all that excess food that will be produced.
Land rates and unused land penalties or something of that sort can be increased and ringfenced to be given to farmers.

This would be an easy way of counties and Ruto to hit on the dynasties and help the hustling farmers. It is also likely to free up idle land in the hands of the big landowners who can lease and chop it up. Heck, the rates can be calculated back to 1920 if it will be about vengeance.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 07, 2021, 12:08:08 AM
Look at fertilizer application in kenya - it stuck or even regressing.  And this key to unlock agriculture - gov need to subsidize fertilizers - from now 3500 per 50bag to 1,000 - and then import 5 times more - and agriculture gdp will move from 25B to 100B dollars

What will be cost of fertilizer subsidy programme of such magnitude....

KTDA import  nearly 1/5 of all the fertilizers - about 100K metric tonnes - out of the roughly 500K metric tonnes being imported in the country

"KTDA Management Services Ltd imported 95,937 metric tonnes (1,918,734 bags) of NPK 26:5:5 fertilizer valued at Kshs. 3.822 Billion on behalf of 619,637 small-scale tea farmers and some multinational companies. The fertilizer has been distributed through the 69 KTDA-managed tea factories in Kenya."

Now that tell you total fertilizer imports to kenya - is mere 20B Kshs.

To raise that 5 times - gov will need to spend 80Bkshs - but because farmers will buy say at 1,000 per bag (spending almost the same amount now - but getting 5 bags instead of 1) - gov need to spend 80B minus 20B.

A fertlizer subsidy programme of 60B kshs - that is just 600M dollars - can generate 100B dollars (with other factors).

So give and take - subsidize quality seeds and pesticides - you can spend 1B dollars  consisting of 600m on fertilizers, 400m in other aspects such as seeds/pesticide - and generate 100B dollars.

With lots of food generated - animal feeds, poutry, dairy - will become profitable.

And with that agro-processing will make sense - so you can similarly lift manufacturing.

https://africafertilizer.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Kenya-Fertilizer-Statistics-Overview-2015.pdf
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: gout on September 07, 2021, 12:17:45 AM
I would say we work with what we have - if it is land and water- let mwafrika use it to the maximum. Fertilizers costs seem higher than leasing an extra acre of land. We can even ride on the organic higher prices train.

But why do we want to add quantity of land under farming; while our productivity is 5 times less than Asia or Europe. Using the current land under cultivation - we can improve the agriculture 5 times - by simply applying 5 times the fertilizers - using quality seeds - embracing GMO and applying required pesticides - better agronomy - and of course figuring out the market for all that excess food that will be produced.
Land rates and unused land penalties or something of that sort can be increased and ringfenced to be given to farmers.

This would be an easy way of counties and Ruto to hit on the dynasties and help the hustling farmers. It is also likely to free up idle land in the hands of the big landowners who can lease and chop it up. Heck, the rates can be calculated back to 1920 if it will be about vengeance.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 07, 2021, 12:21:13 AM
It doesnt require any thinking or innovation. it just require doing. Right now fertilizers are very expensive 3,500 - that almost cost of leasing an acre of land - and people apply one or two bag per acres - instead of 5 to 10 bags.

In my own calculation - if we spend 60B on a huge subsidized fertilizer program - farmers will be able to buy 5 times more for the same 3,500 - buying each at 700 per bag - and their yield will improve 5 times!

Otherwise organic and such ideas - cannot SCALE - we need ideas that can scale. We need people to produce enough food it will start going to waste. And that waste can be fed on cows, chicken and pigs.

Can we get 60B fertilizer subsidy programme - I think we can - in budget of 30B dollars - that is small money.

I would say we work with what we have - if it is land and water- let mwafrika use it to the maximum. Fertilizers costs seem higher than leasing an extra acre of land. We can even ride on the organic higher prices train.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: gout on September 07, 2021, 12:23:06 AM
Precisely. It just needs a presidential that there should be no police talking to matatu drivers na baas. Just like we take our criminal cases to police - it should be the case with matatus, bars, hawkers. Get these leeches of the back of these enterprises and they will use the money to improve services, scale up, integrate innovations and formalize.

Agreed. I am against gov regulating matatu or hawkers directly - but self-regulation. Therefore the police if they notice certain hawker sacco are floating rules - they punish the saccos. The sacco official therefore should regulate their own.

It's like a company. If Kanjo arrived at our company -and find violation - it doesnt go around chasing everyone in the building - and hunting them down like rats. It simply ask the CEO and they sort the issues.

The same need to happen in informal sector. These SACCOS will become like companies - and these hawkers, mechanics, makangas - become employees of SACCOS - the sacco then regulate them - expelling anyone who doesnt for example follow the rules. The gov if they notice a SACCO is violating - they can be kicked out for say a week - until they improve.

So SACCOS - Uniform of the SACCO - and then SACCOs are given a street - if they are mechanics - they are given an area.

Resolving the hasora issues does not even require government funding. Just a common sense regulatory policy. Any business with customers rarely requires loans unless it is for expansion at which point you will get a rentable premise.

In Dar the hawkers clean up their trash from the streets because they are not bothered but in Nairobi they cannot even have a broom or a smal waste bin- they will be arrested for littering/ dumping😂😂😂 Total madness!

Makangas do not want to don their uniforms because once they step out of the vehicle they can be extorted by anybody in the streets.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 07, 2021, 12:27:08 AM
Yes I think laws just need to change. The police should deal with SACCO officials. This need to be codified into law. We need to go for group or sacco punishment. So basically those hawkers become employers or member of SACCO complete with uniform and badge. The police if they find violation - should go to SACCO office. These SACCO should also get gov funding to improve say on hygiene standards, these uniforms can be funded free from gov, etc. And then SACCOs can compete like Matatus do. Each Sacco competing - but no makanga or driver should be arrested except for clearly criminal individual responsibility kind of crime - SACCO itself should get banned or punished for business kind of rules.
Precisely. It just needs a presidential that there should be no police talking to matatu drivers na baas. Just like we take our criminal cases to police - it should be the case with matatus, bars, hawkers. Get these leeches of the back of these enterprises and they will use the money to improve services, scale up, integrate innovations and formalize.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: gout on September 07, 2021, 12:33:19 AM
These businesses make money. The extortion fees are enough for the upgrades, the uniforms, paying offices and daily remittances as is already happening with matatus. In the boda boda where there are no saccos, they are being milked by hire purchase guys who give them the motor bikes and they pay a daily fee taking 9-12 months.

There are enough laws but no one is bold to call off the traffic police and kanjo extortionists. 

Yes I think laws just need to change. The police should deal with SACCO officials. This need to be codified into law. We need to go for group or sacco punishment. So basically those hawkers become employers or member of SACCO complete with uniform and badge. The police if they find violation - should go to SACCO office. These SACCO should also get gov funding to improve say on hygiene standards, these uniforms can be funded free from gov, etc. And then SACCOs can compete like Matatus do. Each Sacco competing - but no makanga or driver should be arrested except for clearly criminal individual responsibility kind of crime - SACCO itself should get banned or punished for business kind of rules.
Precisely. It just needs a presidential that there should be no police talking to matatu drivers na baas. Just like we take our criminal cases to police - it should be the case with matatus, bars, hawkers. Get these leeches of the back of these enterprises and they will use the money to improve services, scale up, integrate innovations and formalize.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 07, 2021, 12:57:14 AM
Yes it's a lot of money. My bro run a matatu sacco - and they make crazy money.And they have incentive to enforce order. Their word is basically the law. Getting banned from a sacco is more serious crime than police shaking few 50bobs. So it easy to regulate these sectors...and for gov to eventually start assisting the members to upgrade to better vehicles, buying houses, getting medical insurances and getting formal employment benefits - and basically dignifying their hustle - just like in developed world - every job is dignified.
These businesses make money. The extortion fees are enough for the upgrades, the uniforms, paying offices and daily remittances as is already happening with matatus. In the boda boda where there are no saccos, they are being milked by hire purchase guys who give them the motor bikes and they pay a daily fee taking 9-12 months.

There are enough laws but no one is bold to call off the traffic police and kanjo extortionists. 
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: Fairandbalanced on September 07, 2021, 02:31:10 AM
Ruto is a piece of shit, no original idea. I listen to him and want to weep, he is a dumb mwizi.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 07, 2021, 02:56:03 AM
Sounds like you got a lot of organic manure that Limuru farmers can use. Online we have no use of it. Meza dawa - 10yrs is a long time to be embittered.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E-mq5jnXoAMAXcr?format=jpg&name=medium)
(https://scontent-mrs2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/241562355_4958957370799427_4942863035041362245_n.jpg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=b1Oz46lRdgIAX-fXRBL&tn=G6G7sDIkcvhxQCfX&_nc_ht=scontent-mrs2-2.xx&oh=c99b406f69e404f69aeb07df706f72dc&oe=615C1ADF)
Ruto is a piece of shit, no original idea. I listen to him and want to weep, he is a dumb mwizi.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: vooke on September 07, 2021, 06:56:31 AM
Look at fertilizer application in kenya - it stuck or even regressing.  And this key to unlock agriculture - gov need to subsidize fertilizers - from now 3500 per 50bag to 1,000 - and then import 5 times more - and agriculture gdp will move from 25B to 100B dollars

What will be cost of fertilizer subsidy programme of such magnitude....

KTDA import  nearly 1/5 of all the fertilizers - about 100K metric tonnes - out of the roughly 500K metric tonnes being imported in the country

"KTDA Management Services Ltd imported 95,937 metric tonnes (1,918,734 bags) of NPK 26:5:5 fertilizer valued at Kshs. 3.822 Billion on behalf of 619,637 small-scale tea farmers and some multinational companies. The fertilizer has been distributed through the 69 KTDA-managed tea factories in Kenya."

Now that tell you total fertilizer imports to kenya - is mere 20B Kshs.

To raise that 5 times - gov will need to spend 80Bkshs - but because farmers will buy say at 1,000 per bag (spending almost the same amount now - but getting 5 bags instead of 1) - gov need to spend 80B minus 20B.

A fertlizer subsidy programme of 60B kshs - that is just 600M dollars - can generate 100B dollars (with other factors).

So give and take - subsidize quality seeds and pesticides - you can spend 1B dollars  consisting of 600m on fertilizers, 400m in other aspects such as seeds/pesticide - and generate 100B dollars.

With lots of food generated - animal feeds, poutry, dairy - will become profitable.

And with that agro-processing will make sense - so you can similarly lift manufacturing.

https://africafertilizer.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Kenya-Fertilizer-Statistics-Overview-2015.pdf

Subsidies won't work. They promote laziness, are a disincentive against efficiency as long as target market is local.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 07, 2021, 08:36:29 AM
Polemics. Subsidizing inputs will work. Subsidizing seeds or fertilizer will work. It worked under Ruto. Subsidizing Ugali is a problem. Like now fuel subsidy thing - they are running out of money.

You can invest 1B dollars in agri to generate 100B.

Or you can try to subsidize Ugali - and get nowhere.

Look at Netherland - small country - of merely 2 million hectares - that applies 10 times of our fertilizer. They export nearly 100B dollars of agriclutural products.

This a very low hanging fruit.

Subsidies won't work. They promote laziness, are a disincentive against efficiency as long as target market is local.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 07, 2021, 08:52:04 AM
Egypt does 562 kgs per hectare - Kenya does 15kilos. It no wonder we import everything from Egypt who only farm on a tiny strip of land along the river nile.

We apply 30 times less fertilizer.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 07, 2021, 09:34:14 AM
Subsidizing only means shifting partial cost of a product from the consumer to the public. If a farmer can't buy inputs at the market rate, farm and turn a profit, they should shift to other  economic activity. Government involvement in agriculture is what has hampered market driven growth. NCPB should be immediately be relegated to warehousing only. There's a reason why there's no farmers owned flour company, yet Maize is far more easier to process and market unlike milk for example.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 07, 2021, 09:41:28 AM
There are two things that you've overlooking. Large portion of kenyans are farmers - NOT BY CHOICE - but because they have no other option. There are at least 8m poor farmers in kenya - who can never afford farm inputs - they rely on almost zero fertilizers - bad seeds - and this will continue - and they will remain poor.Secondly it's proven by fertilizer application will increase yield - double application - will nearly double the yields.

So it's Productivity cum Poverty (social investment) - I believe this essence of the bottom up economy - deliberate intervention as opposed to policy intervention that hopefully trickle down.

We either give them low interest loans or we subsidize fertilizers - and bring it to the floor - and hope everyone can afford it. But we are doing so badly - we need to increase fertilizer application at least 5 times - in the short term - and 10 times in the medium term.

Maize milling - there is a literally a posho mill in every hamlet - the overcapacity is incredible - unless you mean the urban market - otherwise staple food flour milling in kenya is a non-issues.

Subsidizing only means shifting partial cost of a product from the consumer to the public. If a farmer can't buy inputs at the market rate, farm and turn a profit, they should shift to other  economic activity. Government involvement in agriculture is what has hampered market driven growth. NCPB should be immediately be relegated to warehousing only. There's a reason why there's no farmers owned flour company, yet Maize is far more easier to process and market unlike milk for example.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 07, 2021, 10:26:11 AM
There are two things that you've overlooking. Large portion of kenyans are farmers - NOT BY CHOICE - but because they have no other option. There are at least 8m poor farmers in kenya - who can never afford farm inputs - they rely on almost zero fertilizers - bad seeds - and this will continue - and they will remain poor.Secondly it's proven by fertilizer application will increase yield - double application - will nearly double the yields.

So it's Productivity cum Poverty (social investment) - I believe this essence of the bottom up economy - deliberate intervention as opposed to policy intervention that hopefully trickle down.

We either give them low interest loans or we subsidize fertilizers - and bring it to the floor - and hope everyone can afford it. But we are doing so badly - we need to increase fertilizer application at least 5 times - in the short term - and 10 times in the medium term.

Maize milling - there is a literally a posho mill in every hamlet - the overcapacity is incredible - unless you mean the urban market - otherwise staple food flour milling in kenya is a non-issues.

Subsidizing only means shifting partial cost of a product from the consumer to the public. If a farmer can't buy inputs at the market rate, farm and turn a profit, they should shift to other  economic activity. Government involvement in agriculture is what has hampered market driven growth. NCPB should be immediately be relegated to warehousing only. There's a reason why there's no farmers owned flour company, yet Maize is far more easier to process and market unlike milk for example.
NCPB farmers aren't poor just pampered inefficient farmers. The subsistence farmer can use organic fertilizers to increase yields, then grow to afford chemical fertilizers.  The productivity increment for a subsistence farmer use of chemical fertilizer vs organic is marginal. Its the same reason why David ndii is advocating for use of charcoal for the poor as bridge to electricity or gas.
Milk is also hawked in every hamlet since independence. The point is farmers owned milling/packaging/branding company would drive increase in productivity downstream. It's the reason why Githunguri, meru and mukurweini dairy farmers are some of the most productive in the country. 
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 07, 2021, 10:49:14 AM
I think we are not talking about the same farmers. If you're talking small scale commercial farming like you see in Eldoret or Kericho or Kitale - those ones are okayish - they just need small incentive - NCPB to be reformed. They need KFA that is working - a farmers bank - that can lend along the season. They need low cost loans...and they will apply enough fertilizers, buy quality seeds, pesticides and are almost as good as any maize farmer in the world.

Some have grown to milling - like Kili's in Eldoret.

Now move on to 8M POOR REALLY SMALLHOLDER FARMING


I am talking 8m farmers in vihiga, bungoma, gusii, embu, bomet - these are farmers - who own 1-2 acres of land. These are farming model I am talking about.

Oneacrefund has been successfully in part of western kenya - and gov need to adopt such a model

Listen to OnAcreFund founder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=wlR1ojoiue0&feature=emb_logo

NCPB farmers aren't poor just pampered inefficient farmers. The subsistence farmer can use organic fertilizers to increase yields, then grow to afford chemical fertilizers.  The productivity increment for a subsistence farmer use of chemical fertilizer vs organic is marginal. Its the same reason why David ndii is advocating for use of charcoal for the poor as bridge to electricity or gas.
Milk is also hawked in every hamlet since independence. The point is farmers owned milling/packaging/branding company would drive increase in productivity downstream. It's the reason why Githunguri, meru and mukurweini dairy farmers are some of the most productive in the country. 
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: vooke on September 07, 2021, 12:30:54 PM
You don't need to subsidize ugali, just open import floodgates and ugali will cost a fraction.

Instant uppercut to inflation.



Polemics. Subsidizing inputs will work. Subsidizing seeds or fertilizer will work. It worked under Ruto. Subsidizing Ugali is a problem. Like now fuel subsidy thing - they are running out of money.

You can invest 1B dollars in agri to generate 100B.

Or you can try to subsidize Ugali - and get nowhere.

Look at Netherland - small country - of merely 2 million hectares - that applies 10 times of our fertilizer. They export nearly 100B dollars of agriclutural products.

This a very low hanging fruit.

Subsidies won't work. They promote laziness, are a disincentive against efficiency as long as target market is local.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 07, 2021, 12:39:19 PM
That I agree entirely.
But I also think the 8M poor farmers without any career options; need help.
We have been unable to help them with blocking imports - and we have many consumers suffering.
So for me open the floodgates
And then assist the farmers to compete.
There is NO MAGIC in agricluture...it just fertilizers, quality seeds and rainfall.

If after giving them 1B dollars shot in the arm - and they are unable to compete with international prizes - then we cannot help them


You don't need to subsidize ugali, just open import floodgates and ugali will cost a fraction.

Instant uppercut to inflation.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: Georgesoros on September 07, 2021, 03:03:43 PM
Look at fertilizer application in kenya - it stuck or even regressing.  And this key to unlock agriculture - gov need to subsidize fertilizers - from now 3500 per 50bag to 1,000 - and then import 5 times more - and agriculture gdp will move from 25B to 100B dollars

What will be cost of fertilizer subsidy programme of such magnitude....

KTDA import  nearly 1/5 of all the fertilizers - about 100K metric tonnes - out of the roughly 500K metric tonnes being imported in the country

"KTDA Management Services Ltd imported 95,937 metric tonnes (1,918,734 bags) of NPK 26:5:5 fertilizer valued at Kshs. 3.822 Billion on behalf of 619,637 small-scale tea farmers and some multinational companies. The fertilizer has been distributed through the 69 KTDA-managed tea factories in Kenya."

Now that tell you total fertilizer imports to kenya - is mere 20B Kshs.

To raise that 5 times - gov will need to spend 80Bkshs - but because farmers will buy say at 1,000 per bag (spending almost the same amount now - but getting 5 bags instead of 1) - gov need to spend 80B minus 20B.

A fertlizer subsidy programme of 60B kshs - that is just 600M dollars - can generate 100B dollars (with other factors).

So give and take - subsidize quality seeds and pesticides - you can spend 1B dollars  consisting of 600m on fertilizers, 400m in other aspects such as seeds/pesticide - and generate 100B dollars.

With lots of food generated - animal feeds, poutry, dairy - will become profitable.

And with that agro-processing will make sense - so you can similarly lift manufacturing.

https://africafertilizer.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/Kenya-Fertilizer-Statistics-Overview-2015.pdf

Subsidies won't work. They promote laziness, are a disincentive against efficiency as long as target market is local.

Fertilizer are like antibiotics - they kill good nutrients leaving farmers to depend on them every year.  In the end there is no nutrients in the foods being produced.
Pundit you've repeated these ideas year after year, but no policy while Ruto has been in high office for twenty plus years.
What makes you think I should believe this will be done in 5yrs?
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 07, 2021, 03:09:22 PM
But Ruto did it under Ministry of Kilimo - before Raila got jealous and demoted him to Min of Higher education.

He delivered in Min of Higher Education - they fired him to stay at home.

Ruto delivered in Jubilee 1.0 - Uhuru got jealous and fired him. Now he unable to even print HUDUMA number  and Big 4 is totally zero. BBI ndio hiyo found with 20 fatal errors. They cannot do nothing - while Jubilee 1.0 broke the record by increasing their votes while running as incumbent

Ruto was so good as Ass min under Moi - he was allowed to sit in Cabinet. Ruto just has never failed to deliver on a given job...he expend energy and commitmentand get stuff done.

Now Ruto as PORK - many of these common sense ideas will be EXECUTED. Ruto knows how to get stuff done. We do not need MAGICAL ideas - we just need to do common sense stuff - that works - SACCOs - Fertilizers - etc.

Under his kilimo tenure
Fertilizers were so cheap - they used to be re-sold to uganda by corrupt gangs - and we got maize surplus.
Ruto is also a farmer himself.

My father was not a Ruto fan - but in 2009 - they went and saw Ruto - and he fixed their tea problem instantly - he just picked a phone and told KTDA to f.off and my father /others were able to sell their tea to James Finlay and my village totally changed in 5yrs as people became rich -

Ruto use to reserve wednesday to see people and fix their issues. Simple stuff like picking a phone  and reading riot act to stupid people in gov - can change a lot.

Fertilizer are like antibiotics - they kill good nutrients leaving farmers to depend on them every year.  In the end there is no nutrients in the foods being produced.
Pundit you've repeated these ideas year after year, but no policy while Ruto has been in high office for twenty plus years.
What makes you think I should believe this will be done in 5yrs?
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: vooke on September 07, 2021, 04:39:47 PM
There's nothing you can do to bring down the cost of maize to say Uganda's.

As long as they are producing for local market then you may as well let them be and instead buy maize at above market price as NCPB which you then resell to millers.

International soko is a new ball game where you don't get to set prices.



That I agree entirely.
But I also think the 8M poor farmers without any career options; need help.
We have been unable to help them with blocking imports - and we have many consumers suffering.
So for me open the floodgates
And then assist the farmers to compete.
There is NO MAGIC in agricluture...it just fertilizers, quality seeds and rainfall.

If after giving them 1B dollars shot in the arm - and they are unable to compete with international prizes - then we cannot help them


You don't need to subsidize ugali, just open import floodgates and ugali will cost a fraction.

Instant uppercut to inflation.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 07, 2021, 04:50:49 PM
But we are in agreement.
The only reason international prices are higher is because they apply more fertilizers - something we can do.
Uganda has natural rich soil - but with fertilizers - we can beat them.

I am for subsidizing key inputs

And then letting farmers compete with everyone.

We cannot do both. We only give them fertilizers - either as loan or grants - then they compete like everyone else

But we cannot tax consumers - and then send money to agriclutural sector that will be untaxed.

Kenya has been trying to do both in haphazard way.

We need farmers to be told - okay here is fertilizers - selling for 700shs - cheap quality seeds - now work hard - and produce - and find market.

There's nothing you can do to bring down the cost of maize to say Uganda's.

As long as they are producing for local market then you may as well let them be and instead buy maize at above market price as NCPB which you then resell to millers.

International soko is a new ball game where you don't get to set prices.

Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on September 08, 2021, 07:34:28 AM
Fertilizer are like antibiotics - they kill good nutrients leaving farmers to depend on them every year.  In the end there is no nutrients in the foods being produced.
Pundit you've repeated these ideas year after year, but no policy while Ruto has been in high office for twenty plus years.
What makes you think I should believe this will be done in 5yrs?

Kula tano you showing ecological know how.

Fertiliziers are 19th century mistake.

21st century will be about taking care of soil microbes which give soil nutrients. Fertilizers kill soil microorganisms.

Uasin Gishu used to be one of the most fertile areas and the breadbasket of Kenya's its soils are turning barren yields decreasing dramatically because of overapplication of chemical fertilizers burning the soil, pure acid and salt.

He loves running his mouth about shit he doesn't know anything about.

Subsidies are a time bomb, they destroy countries, hard to withdraw even after the stated goal has been achieved.

He is having wet dreams about Ruto presidency that will not be, a world of make believe.

Boy will be utterly shattered mentally this time next year.





Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 08, 2021, 07:46:40 AM
Pure nonsense. Without fertilizers, the world would not have been able to support 7B people. Fertilizers application is through the roof outside Africa - and their agriculture thrives.

Fertilizers do not take nutrients away - how is that even possible when Nitrogen is freely available in the air. We are doing 15kilos -while Egypt is doing 500kilos per hectare...and now we are importing 1.5B dollars worth of food...more if you include palm oil...and you think subsidy wont work? While we are sending 1.5B dollars every year abroad to import food we can produce?

what takes nutrient away from soil is useless crops like sugar cane and tobbaco - those are the ones that have sucked up nyanza and western soil.And the soil require heavy dosage of fertilizers to replenish their nutrients.

If there is a problem in places like Eldoret - it soil acidity - and it just need dosage of lime - from Koru.

Next agricluture - cannot be done organic old stone age way - we have to go scientific - do soil testing - and apply the required dossage of fertilizers and chemicals - and voila we are food sufficent - and can export lot more food.

Kula tano you showing ecological know how.

Fertiliziers are 19th century mistake.

21st century will be about taking care of soil microbes which give soil nutrients. Fertilizers kill soil microorganisms.

Uasin Gishu used to be one of the most fertile areas and the breadbasket of Kenya's its soils are turning barren yields decreasing dramatically because of overapplication of chemical fertilizers burning the soil, pure acid and salt.

He loves running his mouth about shit he doesn't know anything about.

Subsidies are a time bomb, they destroy countries, hard to withdraw even after the stated goal has been achieved.

He is having wet dreams about Ruto presidency that will not be, a world of make believe.

Boy will be utterly shattered mentally this time next year.






Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 08, 2021, 02:12:03 PM
I think we are not talking about the same farmers. If you're talking small scale commercial farming like you see in Eldoret or Kericho or Kitale - those ones are okayish - they just need small incentive - NCPB to be reformed. They need KFA that is working - a farmers bank - that can lend along the season. They need low cost loans...and they will apply enough fertilizers, buy quality seeds, pesticides and are almost as good as any maize farmer in the world.

Some have grown to milling - like Kili's in Eldoret.

Now move on to 8M POOR REALLY SMALLHOLDER FARMING


I am talking 8m farmers in vihiga, bungoma, gusii, embu, bomet - these are farmers - who own 1-2 acres of land. These are farming model I am talking about.

Oneacrefund has been successfully in part of western kenya - and gov need to adopt such a model

Listen to OnAcreFund founder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=wlR1ojoiue0&feature=emb_logo

NCPB farmers aren't poor just pampered inefficient farmers. The subsistence farmer can use organic fertilizers to increase yields, then grow to afford chemical fertilizers.  The productivity increment for a subsistence farmer use of chemical fertilizer vs organic is marginal. Its the same reason why David ndii is advocating for use of charcoal for the poor as bridge to electricity or gas.
Milk is also hawked in every hamlet since independence. The point is farmers owned milling/packaging/branding company would drive increase in productivity downstream. It's the reason why Githunguri, meru and mukurweini dairy farmers are some of the most productive in the country. 
The 8m poor farmers if they were farming the ideal crops for their area would do just fine or atleast improve their lot. Bungoma, vihiga or Embu can focus on legumes. There's a ready market for legumes in North Eastern and kenya in general. Kitui had produced ndengu successfully.
Instead of offering subsidized loan, treasury should work to lower interest rates for everyone. A farmer should easily walk to the nearest bank and borrow, after all farming is an economic endeavor just like any other.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 08, 2021, 02:23:35 PM
No, farming cannot work like commercial banks. Farm loans need to follow farming seasons. This not a shop keeper who will be in business everyday. This an activity that start with farming and end with harvesting. People need inputs in planting period - and then grace period - until harvestig.

KFA then KGGCU before it became privatized use to work really well - and many farmers were successfully.

What we need now is KFA that is public - the other one is private - or gov to acquire KFA - and make it big.

KFA - should offer farm input loans and crop insurance around the farming calender - and should be everywhere.

Safaricom has digifarm thing that is working somewhat.

These 8M people are not sophisticated enough to go to bank - take a loan - and do all that. They are mostly illiterates. They need to be given fertilizers - and after harvesting - the money is deducted - if crop failed due to rain - crop insurance deal with that.

We need a farmers bank - that runs on a cooperative model - that owns fertilizer importation/production - and quality seeds - and then warehouses and all that.

I would merge and acquire KFA, Kenya Seeds and NCPB - into one giant Kenya Farmers Bank. Gov annually will subsidize this bank by injecting money to be lend to farmers in form of inputs

The 8m poor farmers if they were farming the ideal crops for their area would do just fine or atleast improve their lot. Bungoma, vihiga or Embu can focus on legumes. There's a ready market for legumes in North Eastern and kenya in general. Kitui had produced ndengu successfully.
Instead of offering subsidized loan, treasury should work to lower interest rates for everyone. A farmer should easily walk to the nearest bank and borrow, after all farming is an economic endeavor just like any other.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 08, 2021, 02:24:13 PM
But Ruto did it under Ministry of Kilimo - before Raila got jealous and demoted him to Min of Higher education.

He delivered in Min of Higher Education - they fired him to stay at home.

Ruto delivered in Jubilee 1.0 - Uhuru got jealous and fired him. Now he unable to even print HUDUMA number  and Big 4 is totally zero. BBI ndio hiyo found with 20 fatal errors. They cannot do nothing - while Jubilee 1.0 broke the record by increasing their votes while running as incumbent

Ruto was so good as Ass min under Moi - he was allowed to sit in Cabinet. Ruto just has never failed to deliver on a given job...he expend energy and commitmentand get stuff done.

Now Ruto as PORK - many of these common sense ideas will be EXECUTED. Ruto knows how to get stuff done. We do not need MAGICAL ideas - we just need to do common sense stuff - that works - SACCOs - Fertilizers - etc.

Under his kilimo tenure
Fertilizers were so cheap - they used to be re-sold to uganda by corrupt gangs - and we got maize surplus.
Ruto is also a farmer himself.

My father was not a Ruto fan - but in 2009 - they went and saw Ruto - and he fixed their tea problem instantly - he just picked a phone and told KTDA to f.off and my father /others were able to sell their tea to James Finlay and my village totally changed in 5yrs as people became rich -

Ruto use to reserve wednesday to see people and fix their issues. Simple stuff like picking a phone  and reading riot act to stupid people in gov - can change a lot.

Fertilizer are like antibiotics - they kill good nutrients leaving farmers to depend on them every year.  In the end there is no nutrients in the foods being produced.
Pundit you've repeated these ideas year after year, but no policy while Ruto has been in high office for twenty plus years.
What makes you think I should believe this will be done in 5yrs?
He also banned export of raw nuts, killing the cashew nuts industry in coast. And also deprived macadamia farmers higher gate prices for macadamia as the foreign buyers were deported.
Subsidized fertilizer distorts cost of production and farmers never really increase productivity cause they're solely dependent on cheap fertilizer. Even worse the subsidy is shouldered by the public. 
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 08, 2021, 02:27:38 PM
Post Ruto reforms - see how Kenya has risen in Macademia
(https://p0.ipstatp.com/large/005adec86d4680a3a563)
He also banned export of raw nuts, killing the cashew nuts industry in coast. And also deprived macadamia farmers higher gate prices for macadamia as the foreign buyers were deported.
Subsidized fertilizer distorts cost of production and farmers never really increase productivity cause they're solely dependent on cheap fertilizer. Even worse the subsidy is shouldered by the public. 
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 08, 2021, 02:42:09 PM
No, farming cannot work like commercial banks. Farm loans need to follow farming seasons. This not a shop keeper who will be in business everyday. This an activity that start with farming and end with harvesting. People need inputs in planting period - and then grace period - until harvestig.

KFA then KGGCU before it became privatized use to work really well - and many farmers were successfully.

What we need now is KFA that is public - the other one is private - or gov to acquire KFA - and make it big.

KFA - should offer farm input loans and crop insurance around the farming calender - and should be everywhere.

Safaricom has digifarm thing that is working somewhat.

These 8M people are not sophisticated enough to go to bank - take a loan - and do all that. They are mostly illiterates. They need to be given fertilizers - and after harvesting - the money is deducted - if crop failed due to rain - crop insurance deal with that.

The 8m poor farmers if they were farming the ideal crops for their area would do just fine or atleast improve their lot. Bungoma, vihiga or Embu can focus on legumes. There's a ready market for legumes in North Eastern and kenya in general. Kitui had produced ndengu successfully.
Instead of offering subsidized loan, treasury should work to lower interest rates for everyone. A farmer should easily walk to the nearest bank and borrow, after all farming is an economic endeavor just like any other.
Actually local banks have Agriculture division that supposed to lend to farmers, coop, kcb and equity. The loans are specifically structured for agriculture.  The 8m subsistence farmers don't they farm mainly for their own consumption? If that's the case, the primary objective would be to find out what economic activity they can engage in that's commercially viable.
For example, Wakulima dairy in Nyeri provides farmers with everything they need to run a household its then deducted from  their milk earnings. The farmer can then focus on dairy farming.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 08, 2021, 02:49:41 PM
Yes primarily they should grow enough food to meet their nutritional requirement first - and hopefully sell some surplus.

There are all sort of systems in place - some sectors like tea and dairy are okay - there is a working model there - and those sub-sectors are successfuly - it doesnt need much tweaking.

There commercial banks/micro-finance lending very high interest loans with high fees -

We need a farmers bank - that runs on a cooperative model - that owns fertilizer importation/production - and quality seeds - and then warehouses and all that.

I would merge and acquire KFA, Kenya Seeds and NCPB - into one giant Kenya Farmers Bank. Gov annually will subsidize this bank by injecting money to be lend to farmers in form of inputs - and this bank - can "bank" farm outputs - and find market for them - just like KTDA.

I would avoid lending money to poor illiterates farmers - who will waste it and go deeper into poverty. They should be told to form farming groups - prepare their land - and farm inspector come - issue fertilizers - people plant - all of them get crop insurances at small fee - and they tend to the crops - their surplus can be sold to re-pay the zero rated loans.

Something like Digifarm, OneAcrefund merged with KFA, Kenya Seeds,NCPB and then fertilizer importation; DONE.

We cannot leave everything to magic of Market Economy - these 8M poor farmers will never emerge from their hole - without gov subsidies. And if supported they can double or triple their production in a year - eat better and spend more in the same economy.

Actually local banks have Agriculture division that supposed to lend to farmers, coop, kcb and equity. The loans are specifically structured for agriculture.  The 8m subsistence farmers don't they farm mainly for their own consumption? If that's the case, the primary objective would be to find out what economic activity they can engage in that's commercially viable.
For example, Wakulima dairy in Nyeri provides farmers with everything they need to run a household its then deducted from  their milk earnings. The farmer can then focus on dairy farming.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 08, 2021, 03:03:35 PM
Post Ruto reforms - see how Kenya has risen in Macademia
(https://p0.ipstatp.com/large/005adec86d4680a3a563)
He also banned export of raw nuts, killing the cashew nuts industry in coast. And also deprived macadamia farmers higher gate prices for macadamia as the foreign buyers were deported.
Subsidized fertilizer distorts cost of production and farmers never really increase productivity cause they're solely dependent on cheap fertilizer. Even worse the subsidy is shouldered by the public. 
That has nothing to do with Ruto. This was underway, just like dairy farming exploded in Githunguri after collapse of coffee industry. Macadamia and avocado farming are the alternative or supplement of coffee farming. https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/big-read/2018-08-17-meru-macadamia-farmers-want-to-sell-their-nuts-to-chinese/ . Even the biggest macadamia producer Australia hasn't banned export of raw nuts. 
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 08, 2021, 03:13:57 PM
So the problem you have is prices? 

What I know - Ruto most likely found such policy document - and he went ahead to implement - gov has many ideas - but nobody execute them

Seem production wise it's growing meaning farmers are not dampened by banning of raw export

Kenya’s macadamia production increased rapidly during the last decade, from around 11,000 tonnes nut-in-shell (NIS) production in 2009 to 42,500 tonnes in 2018. Kenya’s Agriculture and Food Authority (AFA) estimates that, with increased acreage under the crop, production will reach 60,000 tonnes NIS by 2022. That would constitute an increase by around 40 percent from the production achieved in 2018.


That has nothing to do with Ruto. This was underway, just like dairy farming exploded in Githunguri after collapse of coffee industry. Macadamia and avocado farming are the alternative or supplement of coffee farming. https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/big-read/2018-08-17-meru-macadamia-farmers-want-to-sell-their-nuts-to-chinese/ . Even the biggest macadamia producer Australia hasn't banned export of raw nuts. 
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on September 09, 2021, 06:18:35 AM
Pure nonsense. Without fertilizers, the world would not have been able to support 7B people. Fertilizers application is through the roof outside Africa - and their agriculture thrives.

True, we would have been at 3 bn people max. Synthetic fertilizers have serious drawbacks which the world is awakening to.

1. Cost - inorganic fertilizers are obtained from fossil fuels which are imported and manufactured in energy intensive industries.

2. Serious ecological damage - algal blooms and ocean dead zones, acid rain, greenhouse gases such nitrous oxide, they pollute drinking water, etc

3. Soil fertility is compromised in the long run, you get spikes in yield but it is short lived and you require even more fertilizers to get the same yield every year. This is because inorganic fertilizers kill soil microorganisms which are essential for healthy plant growth - if soil life is vibrant you need not fertilizers and biocides. Plants will be healthy naturally. Nature has evolved an elegant system of growth for plants before industrial fertilizers were invented. Read about the dangers of fertilizers below.


https://amosinstitute.com/blog/the-health-impacts-of-chemical-fertilizers/

Agriculture is not thriving by any stretch. Soils are dying around the world due to combination of ploughing, heavy application of inorganic fertilizers, monoculture/lack of diversity, indiscriminate use of biocides, irrigation. Fertilizers are papering over serious faults temporarily but nature is undefeated, it always wins. Topsoil is being lost at alarming rate due to current agricultural practices.


Fertilizers do not take nutrients away - how is that even possible when Nitrogen is freely available in the air. We are doing 15kilos -while Egypt is doing 500kilos per hectare...and now we are importing 1.5B dollars worth of food...more if you include palm oil...and you think subsidy wont work? While we are sending 1.5B dollars every year abroad to import food we can produce?

The nitrogen that is in the air which is fixed by bacteria aka organic nitrogen is different in kind and quantity from the inorganic nitrogen gotten via industrial process - Haber Bosch, from fossil fuels. If you don't know that get up to speed.

Quote
Results from long-term experiments have shown that continuous use of synthetic fertilisers and pesticides only ensures short term gains in production, but fails to give high yields sustainably in the long-term owing to declining soil fertility as demand for nutrients exceed natural replenishment mechanisms, especially where high yielding varieties are used,” says Dr Anne Muriuki, Centre director KALRO Kabete and technical coordinator of the organic farming trials.

what takes nutrient away from soil is useless crops like sugar cane and tobbaco - those are the ones that have sucked up nyanza and western soil. And the soil require heavy dosage of fertilizers to replenish their nutrients.

If there is a problem in places like Eldoret - it soil acidity - and it just need dosage of lime - from Koru.

Ukabila hata kwa kilimo, Ngai, ati useless crops, ile jeuri unayo. Your take is scientifically wrong. The same poor agricultural practices are destroying soils across this country, soils have no nutrients especially trace minerals, no carbon.

Next agricluture - cannot be done organic old stone age way - we have to go scientific - do soil testing - and apply the required dossage of fertilizers and chemicals - and voila we are food sufficent - and can export lot more food.

Organic agriculture is not enough, we need regenerative agriculture. We had agriculture that was organic for the last 10,000 years and the results haven't been good.

Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 09, 2021, 09:16:35 AM
So the problem you have is prices? 

What I know - Ruto most likely found such policy document - and he went ahead to implement - gov has many ideas - but nobody execute them

Seem production wise it's growing meaning farmers are not dampened by banning of raw export

Kenya’s macadamia production increased rapidly during the last decade, from around 11,000 tonnes nut-in-shell (NIS) production in 2009 to 42,500 tonnes in 2018. Kenya’s Agriculture and Food Authority (AFA) estimates that, with increased acreage under the crop, production will reach 60,000 tonnes NIS by 2022. That would constitute an increase by around 40 percent from the production achieved in 2018.


That has nothing to do with Ruto. This was underway, just like dairy farming exploded in Githunguri after collapse of coffee industry. Macadamia and avocado farming are the alternative or supplement of coffee farming. https://www.the-star.co.ke/news/big-read/2018-08-17-meru-macadamia-farmers-want-to-sell-their-nuts-to-chinese/ . Even the biggest macadamia producer Australia hasn't banned export of raw nuts. 
Price affects future production. The chinese were offering ksh. 50 more than the local buyers, 42500000*50=2.1b , so basically farmers lost 2b in 2018. Basically the policy was very simple ban export of raw nuts depressing local prices, while having a backdoor to export raw nuts priced at "international prices". As a result a  macadamia cartel was created headed by Thika mp. wainanaina jungle nuts.

The reality is that production growth has slowed while avocado production has exploded .
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 09, 2021, 09:16:52 AM
Fear mongering - we need fertilizers, GMOs and all the scientific goodies - to be able to feed 10B people this century. We need precision agriculture, green houses, name it. For kenya we have to go big of fertilizers and GMOs. The next generation will deal with your amargedom scenario.

Our immediate problem right now is to feed people so they can engage in wild theories like you on full stomach

Pure nonsense. Without fertilizers, the world would not have been able to support 7B people. Fertilizers application is through the roof outside Africa - and their agriculture thrives.

True, we would have been at 3 bn people max. Synthetic fertilizers have serious drawbacks which the world is awakening to.

1. Cost - inorganic fertilizers are obtained from fossil fuels which are imported and manufactured in energy intensive industries.

2. Serious ecological damage - algal blooms and ocean dead zones, acid rain, greenhouse gases such nitrous oxide, they pollute drinking water, etc

3. Soil fertility is compromised in the long run, you get spikes in yield but it is short lived and you require even more fertilizers to get the same yield every year. This is because inorganic fertilizers kill soil microorganisms which are essential for healthy plant growth - if soil life is vibrant you need not fertilizers and biocides. Plants will be healthy naturally. Nature has evolved an elegant system of growth for plants before industrial fertilizers were invented. Read about the dangers of fertilizers below.


https://amosinstitute.com/blog/the-health-impacts-of-chemical-fertilizers/

Agriculture is not thriving by any stretch. Soils are dying around the world due to combination of ploughing, heavy application of inorganic fertilizers, monoculture/lack of diversity, indiscriminate use of biocides, irrigation. Fertilizers are papering over serious faults temporarily but nature is undefeated, it always wins. Topsoil is being lost at alarming rate due to current agricultural practices.


Fertilizers do not take nutrients away - how is that even possible when Nitrogen is freely available in the air. We are doing 15kilos -while Egypt is doing 500kilos per hectare...and now we are importing 1.5B dollars worth of food...more if you include palm oil...and you think subsidy wont work? While we are sending 1.5B dollars every year abroad to import food we can produce?

The nitrogen that is in the air which is fixed by bacteria aka organic nitrogen is different in kind and quantity from the inorganic nitrogen gotten via industrial process - Haber Bosch, from fossil fuels. If you don't know that get up to speed.

Quote
Results from long-term experiments have shown that continuous use of synthetic fertilisers and pesticides only ensures short term gains in production, but fails to give high yields sustainably in the long-term owing to declining soil fertility as demand for nutrients exceed natural replenishment mechanisms, especially where high yielding varieties are used,” says Dr Anne Muriuki, Centre director KALRO Kabete and technical coordinator of the organic farming trials.

what takes nutrient away from soil is useless crops like sugar cane and tobbaco - those are the ones that have sucked up nyanza and western soil. And the soil require heavy dosage of fertilizers to replenish their nutrients.

If there is a problem in places like Eldoret - it soil acidity - and it just need dosage of lime - from Koru.

Ukabila hata kwa kilimo, Ngai, ati useless crops, ile jeuri unayo. Your take is scientifically wrong. The same poor agricultural practices are destroying soils across this country, soils have no nutrients especially trace minerals, no carbon.

Next agricluture - cannot be done organic old stone age way - we have to go scientific - do soil testing - and apply the required dossage of fertilizers and chemicals - and voila we are food sufficent - and can export lot more food.

Organic agriculture is not enough, we need regenerative agriculture. We had agriculture that was organic for the last 10,000 years and the results haven't been good.


Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 09, 2021, 09:21:08 AM
I have no problem if gov listen to people and reverse certain policies - but all sides of the coin need to be considered.

Macadamia processing is not a monopoly and with the ban - we have seen more processors - and likes of Jungle - are also creating jobs and more value chain for KRA and all. We need people like Ruto brave enough to ban export of Kenya or coffee premium tea...that is blended...and sold as Lipton tea or whatever. Nobody even know Kenya grow the best tea or coffee...the charltans buy it...mix with poor quality teas worldwide..and pass it as their own.

We get into a situation where agricluture grows - but taxes regress - because sector is untaxed - so gov has to fix agro-processing - once they fix agri part.

Gov has to exercise certain level of control and regulation. We saw Avacados get into problem. I have bought kenya avacados abroad...and they were mostly immature. Most in Europe I hear prefer to buy from Kakuzi only. Now horticulture board is regulating closely. We have the same problem with nuts - poor quality nuts.

Price affects future production. The chinese were offering ksh. 50 more than the local buyers, 42500000*50=2.1b , so basically farmers lost 2b in 2018. Basically the policy was very simple ban export of raw nuts depressing local prices, while having a backdoor to export raw nuts priced at "international prices". As a result a  macadamia cartel was created headed by Thika mp. wainanaina jungle nuts.

The reality is that production growth has slowed while avocado production has exploded .
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 10, 2021, 08:32:06 AM
I have no problem if gov listen to people and reverse certain policies - but all sides of the coin need to be considered.

Macadamia processing is not a monopoly and with the ban - we have seen more processors - and likes of Jungle - are also creating jobs and more value chain for KRA and all. We need people like Ruto brave enough to ban export of Kenya or coffee premium tea...that is blended...and sold as Lipton tea or whatever. Nobody even know Kenya grow the best tea or coffee...the charltans buy it...mix with poor quality teas worldwide..and pass it as their own.

We get into a situation where agricluture grows - but taxes regress - because sector is untaxed - so gov has to fix agro-processing - once they fix agri part.

Gov has to exercise certain level of control and regulation. We saw Avacados get into problem. I have bought kenya avacados abroad...and they were mostly immature. Most in Europe I hear prefer to buy from Kakuzi only. Now horticulture board is regulating closely. We have the same problem with nuts - poor quality nuts.

Price affects future production. The chinese were offering ksh. 50 more than the local buyers, 42500000*50=2.1b , so basically farmers lost 2b in 2018. Basically the policy was very simple ban export of raw nuts depressing local prices, while having a backdoor to export raw nuts priced at "international prices". As a result a  macadamia cartel was created headed by Thika mp. wainanaina jungle nuts.

The reality is that production growth has slowed while avocado production has exploded .
There hasn't been new macadamia processor since the ban. The likes of jungle existed before the ban. The ban barely increased local jobs because macadamia needs processing before export(cleaning and removing moisture). The ban only added cracking and vacuum packing . Meanwhile farmers lost 2b,  farmers would have bought vated and excise taxed goods indirectly paying taxes more than the measly paye paid by a few processors employees.
Tea farmers should be thinking of buying a known brand that the likes of nestle are jettisoning. Most of the quality coffee produced in kenya is fresh roasted and brewed in boutique coffee shops. It's not used in instant coffee e.g nescafe. The key is to innovate to make something similar to coffee pods https://www.keurig.com/beverages/c/beverages101 and create a brand especially targeted to new coffee consumers.
Avocado; the horticulture board should have a marketing department with mark of product. Every avocado approved by the KHE would have that mark. This is what the mexican, chilean have done .
The point is banning export of commodities doesn't create value added jobs. To create value added jobs its important to have local marketed brands. Its the reason why EPZ textile jobs have stagnated and Kenya can't even meet AGOA limits.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 10, 2021, 08:49:38 AM
In commodities where we dominate; we can short-cut that and force the creation of a value chain by banning raw exports;

Tea is good candidate for us to simply put down our feet. It's going to be hard to create another market to rival mombasa tea auction. Srilanka did the banning of raw tea export - and everyone now know of Ceylon tea - nobody knows Kenya produces the best tea. Everywhere everyone think tea is either Lipton or Ceylon. And we do not need to create brands - we can force Lipton Tea to do the processing and packaging right here - creating jobs, paying more taxes and the work.

Why do we allow Uniliver to take our raw tea - and multiply it - without adding any real value? Let them move the whole  blending, packaging and factories for doing that here....or they can import uganda poor quality tea.

But for other sectors - yes I agree - we need to come up with brands - as we grow production. Coffee can do much more - Uganda is doing 10 times our production and they started recently.

We cannot be comfortable exporting raw materials - even in low hanging fruits - like agro-processing.

Jobs creation is not just about PAYE. Farmers are educating kids -exporting raw materials - and expect their kids to get jobs where? If they do not create a value-chain that would multiply jobs?

And we should not be afraid of losing 2B in short term - if in the medium and long term - we will grow an entire industry and value chain.

There hasn't been new macadamia processor since the ban. The likes of jungle existed before the ban. The ban barely increased local jobs because macadamia needs processing before export(cleaning and removing moisture). The ban only added cracking and vacuum packing . Meanwhile farmers lost 2b,  farmers would have bought vated and excise taxed goods indirectly paying taxes more than the measly paye paid by a few processors employees.
Tea farmers should be thinking of buying a known brand that the likes of nestle are jettisoning. Most of the quality coffee produced in kenya is fresh roasted and brewed in boutique coffee shops. It's not used in instant coffee e.g nescafe. The key is to innovate to make something similar to coffee pods https://www.keurig.com/beverages/c/beverages101 and create a brand especially targeted to new coffee consumers.
Avocado; the horticulture board should have a marketing department with mark of product. Every avocado approved by the KHE would have that mark. This is what the mexican, chilean have done .
The point is banning export of commodities doesn't create value added jobs. To create value added jobs its important to have local marketed brands. Its the reason why EPZ textile jobs have stagnated and Kenya can't even meet AGOA limits.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 11, 2021, 10:38:25 AM
In commodities where we dominate; we can short-cut that and force the creation of a value chain by banning raw exports;

Tea is good candidate for us to simply put down our feet. It's going to be hard to create another market to rival mombasa tea auction. Srilanka did the banning of raw tea export - and everyone now know of Ceylon tea - nobody knows Kenya produces the best tea. Everywhere everyone think tea is either Lipton or Ceylon. And we do not need to create brands - we can force Lipton Tea to do the processing and packaging right here - creating jobs, paying more taxes and the work.

Why do we allow Uniliver to take our raw tea - and multiply it - without adding any real value? Let them move the whole  blending, packaging and factories for doing that here....or they can import uganda poor quality tea.

But for other sectors - yes I agree - we need to come up with brands - as we grow production. Coffee can do much more - Uganda is doing 10 times our production and they started recently.

We cannot be comfortable exporting raw materials - even in low hanging fruits - like agro-processing.

Jobs creation is not just about PAYE. Farmers are educating kids -exporting raw materials - and expect their kids to get jobs where? If they do not create a value-chain that would multiply jobs?

And we should not be afraid of losing 2B in short term - if in the medium and long term - we will grow an entire industry and value chain.

There hasn't been new macadamia processor since the ban. The likes of jungle existed before the ban. The ban barely increased local jobs because macadamia needs processing before export(cleaning and removing moisture). The ban only added cracking and vacuum packing . Meanwhile farmers lost 2b,  farmers would have bought vated and excise taxed goods indirectly paying taxes more than the measly paye paid by a few processors employees.
Tea farmers should be thinking of buying a known brand that the likes of nestle are jettisoning. Most of the quality coffee produced in kenya is fresh roasted and brewed in boutique coffee shops. It's not used in instant coffee e.g nescafe. The key is to innovate to make something similar to coffee pods https://www.keurig.com/beverages/c/beverages101 and create a brand especially targeted to new coffee consumers.
Avocado; the horticulture board should have a marketing department with mark of product. Every avocado approved by the KHE would have that mark. This is what the mexican, chilean have done .
The point is banning export of commodities doesn't create value added jobs. To create value added jobs its important to have local marketed brands. Its the reason why EPZ textile jobs have stagnated and Kenya can't even meet AGOA limits.
Actually sri lanka hasn't banned export of raw tea. Sri lanka export 45% of its tea in value added form the rest raw.  Everyone wants to value add and capture as much of value chain as possible.  Arbitrarily banning export of commodities doesn't create value addition especially in commodities that the country doesn't have great leverage. Tax policy, innovation and encouraging creation of brands is how to add value. The tea development board should have a marketing department to market kenya brands internationally.  Sri Lanka it has taken them more than 20yrs to create a global brand.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 11, 2021, 12:14:27 PM
No. Banning of raw exports works. Macademia is good example.
Look at this http://nuts.agricultureauthority.go.ke/index.php/sectors/overview-nuts
On obscure crop like macademia, cashew nuts and coconuts - they are nearly 200 companies.
That is an impressive value chain.

Now imagine Tea - Srilanka produce less than us but earn more than us.

We already dominate the export market - if we agree with Uganda, Rwanda, TZ and Malawi - to jointly ban raw export of tea - where will they get tea? India cannot satisfy internal demand. And Tea is not something you can wake up and grow tomorrow - assuming you have the climate for it.

The same for Ghana and Ivory coast - they get 2-4B dollars - while chocolate industry is worth 100B - and you have little countries like Switzerland profiting.

We need to ban raw exports of our goods. That simple.

We have done the same on hides and skins. Macademia. Next will be tea.

This only way to kick start manufacturing through agro-processing - and our export value.

Right now we are stuck at 6b dollars - and our imports have grown to 20B dollars - and with debt situation - we are playing with fire.

To improve manufacturing and export -  we must ban any export of raw materials - and given local companies incentivies through EPZ model - so they can compete international.

Also the Liptons can come to kenya - and be given EPZ license - they can set up in Dongo Kundu Free Port - get as nearly same conditions as they would in Netherlands - but Keep JOBS here - the DOLLARS here - and multiplier effect.

And they should proudly display MADE in KENYA.

Actually sri lanka hasn't banned export of raw tea. Sri lanka export 45% of its tea in value added form the rest raw.  Everyone wants to value add and capture as much of value chain as possible.  Arbitrarily banning export of commodities doesn't create value addition especially in commodities that the country doesn't have great leverage. Tax policy, innovation and encouraging creation of brands is how to add value. The tea development board should have a marketing department to market kenya brands internationally.  Sri Lanka it has taken them more than 20yrs to create a global brand.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 11, 2021, 05:14:59 PM
HK reading a tea factory feasibility done in 2009 - near my home

Can you imagine kenya tea locally sold is more expensive that rubbish export

The current market price for processed tea is Ksh 280/= per kilogram in the local
market and Ksh 220/= for export

Heck look at Ketepa - cheapest kenyans buy is 1000 per kilo plus - while we are exporting for 200shs
https://www.jumia.co.ke/ketepa/

Modern day slavery - we are struggling to sell a kilo for 200shs to pampered foreign buyers - tea farmers themselves cannot buy half a kilo for that
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 12, 2021, 09:04:33 AM
HK reading a tea factory feasibility done in 2009 - near my home

Can you imagine kenya tea locally sold is more expensive that rubbish export

The current market price for processed tea is Ksh 280/= per kilogram in the local
market and Ksh 220/= for export

Heck look at Ketepa - cheapest kenyans buy is 1000 per kilo plus - while we are exporting for 200shs
https://www.jumia.co.ke/ketepa/

Modern day slavery - we are struggling to sell a kilo for 200shs to pampered foreign buyers - tea farmers themselves cannot buy half a kilo for that
Adding value is what every commodity producer is aiming for.  Banning raw export is populist but does little to address the underlying impediments to value addition.
https://stir-tea-coffee.com/tea-report/kenya%E2%80%99s-tea-taxes/

It adds to levies that are small in absolute terms but a heavy burden in a sector operating on thin margins. A 12% VAT is charged for tea sold and consumed locally. A 1% levy on tea traded at the Mombasa auctions is not incurred by foreign sellers. This means they can price their goods lower than Kenyan growers and packers even where the quality is lower. The Mombasa auction is the world’s largest and ten tea producing nations bring their goods to it.

This is part of the obstacles. Nobody is against value addition, the question is how to. Sri lanka had some serious entrepreneurs also who have propelled the industry. KTDA doesn't have the wherewithal, expertise or risk tolerance. Gold crown beverages seems to be doing it https://www.wsj.com/articles/kenyan-tea-a-reliable-export-brews-a-market-at-home-1488796208
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 12, 2021, 12:08:01 PM
Explain to me why kenya cannot use it market dominance in black tea to force packers, blenders and brands to create value-chain?
Recently we forced a reserve price - I see market had no option but accept it. They cannot find alternative black tea.
Kenya now produce about 560K tonnes of tea...that is more than all the 9 countries.
Our competitor would be both China and India at 1.5m-2m - but they can hardly fulfil their market demand.
we should negotiate....we put our foot down...and global brand already existing will shift their operation to kenya.
Why cant these global brands package the tea in Mombasa? Why wont Uniliver not build their factory in Mombasa?
Adding value is what every commodity producer is aiming for.  Banning raw export is populist but does little to address the underlying impediments to value addition.
https://stir-tea-coffee.com/tea-report/kenya%E2%80%99s-tea-taxes/

It adds to levies that are small in absolute terms but a heavy burden in a sector operating on thin margins. A 12% VAT is charged for tea sold and consumed locally. A 1% levy on tea traded at the Mombasa auctions is not incurred by foreign sellers. This means they can price their goods lower than Kenyan growers and packers even where the quality is lower. The Mombasa auction is the world’s largest and ten tea producing nations bring their goods to it.

This is part of the obstacles. Nobody is against value addition, the question is how to. Sri lanka had some serious entrepreneurs also who have propelled the industry. KTDA doesn't have the wherewithal, expertise or risk tolerance. Gold crown beverages seems to be doing it https://www.wsj.com/articles/kenyan-tea-a-reliable-export-brews-a-market-at-home-1488796208
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 13, 2021, 04:22:27 PM
Explain to me why kenya cannot use it market dominance in black tea to force packers, blenders and brands to create value-chain?
Recently we forced a reserve price - I see market had no option but accept it. They cannot find alternative black tea.
Kenya now produce about 560K tonnes of tea...that is more than all the 9 countries.
Our competitor would be both China and India at 1.5m-2m - but they can hardly fulfil their market demand.
we should negotiate....we put our foot down...and global brand already existing will shift their operation to kenya.
Why cant these global brands package the tea in Mombasa? Why wont Uniliver not build their factory in Mombasa?
Adding value is what every commodity producer is aiming for.  Banning raw export is populist but does little to address the underlying impediments to value addition.
https://stir-tea-coffee.com/tea-report/kenya%E2%80%99s-tea-taxes/

It adds to levies that are small in absolute terms but a heavy burden in a sector operating on thin margins. A 12% VAT is charged for tea sold and consumed locally. A 1% levy on tea traded at the Mombasa auctions is not incurred by foreign sellers. This means they can price their goods lower than Kenyan growers and packers even where the quality is lower. The Mombasa auction is the world’s largest and ten tea producing nations bring their goods to it.

This is part of the obstacles. Nobody is against value addition, the question is how to. Sri lanka had some serious entrepreneurs also who have propelled the industry. KTDA doesn't have the wherewithal, expertise or risk tolerance. Gold crown beverages seems to be doing it https://www.wsj.com/articles/kenyan-tea-a-reliable-export-brews-a-market-at-home-1488796208
And where would farmers take their tea if the buyers withdrew from auction? Its not like the farmers have great option either. Solution either buy existing global brand  e.g lipton https://www.wsj.com/articles/tea-giant-weighs-giving-up-on-tea-11580380902 or create a global brand. Already uniliver wants to exit the business so imagine forcing them to value addd in kenya.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 13, 2021, 04:41:55 PM
Yes we better buy it. This how gov can assist farmers. Unless value chain is built here - we will become slaves of export market. I believe where we have market dominance - we should make it work.

Surely if kenyans can afford to buy dust - for more 1,000 ksh - why are we selling premium tea abroad for 190-300shs?

We surely talk to other countries - and all coordinate to ban export of unpacked tea. What is complicated about branding and packaging tea - and we start selling them for 10-20usd instead of 2 dollars - that is like 10 times more value. Most of difficult manufacturing we do here.....it just branding, marketting and the works.

Let us start to build Brand KENYA - through our tea.

And where would farmers take their tea if the buyers withdrew from auction? Its not like the farmers have great option either. Solution either buy existing global brand  e.g lipton https://www.wsj.com/articles/tea-giant-weighs-giving-up-on-tea-11580380902 or create a global brand. Already uniliver wants to exit the business so imagine forcing them to value addd in kenya.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on September 13, 2021, 06:13:43 PM
Yes we better buy it. This how gov can assist farmers. Unless value chain is built here - we will become slaves of export market. I believe where we have market dominance - we should make it work.

Surely if kenyans can afford to buy dust - for more 1,000 ksh - why are we selling premium tea abroad for 190-300shs?

We surely talk to other countries - and all coordinate to ban export of unpacked tea. What is complicated about branding and packaging tea - and we start selling them for 10-20usd instead of 2 dollars - that is like 10 times more value. Most of difficult manufacturing we do here.....it just branding, marketting and the works.

Let us start to build Brand KENYA - through our tea.

And where would farmers take their tea if the buyers withdrew from auction? Its not like the farmers have great option either. Solution either buy existing global brand  e.g lipton https://www.wsj.com/articles/tea-giant-weighs-giving-up-on-tea-11580380902 or create a global brand. Already uniliver wants to exit the business so imagine forcing them to value addd in kenya.

Little Rwanda did it with coffee but Kenya can't do it.

Maajabu ya Musa

Something is wrong with this country.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: Georgesoros on September 13, 2021, 06:22:39 PM
Explain to me why kenya cannot use it market dominance in black tea to force packers, blenders and brands to create value-chain?
Recently we forced a reserve price - I see market had no option but accept it. They cannot find alternative black tea.
Kenya now produce about 560K tonnes of tea...that is more than all the 9 countries.
Our competitor would be both China and India at 1.5m-2m - but they can hardly fulfil their market demand.
we should negotiate....we put our foot down...and global brand already existing will shift their operation to kenya.
Why cant these global brands package the tea in Mombasa? Why wont Uniliver not build their factory in Mombasa?
Adding value is what every commodity producer is aiming for.  Banning raw export is populist but does little to address the underlying impediments to value addition.
https://stir-tea-coffee.com/tea-report/kenya%E2%80%99s-tea-taxes/

It adds to levies that are small in absolute terms but a heavy burden in a sector operating on thin margins. A 12% VAT is charged for tea sold and consumed locally. A 1% levy on tea traded at the Mombasa auctions is not incurred by foreign sellers. This means they can price their goods lower than Kenyan growers and packers even where the quality is lower. The Mombasa auction is the world’s largest and ten tea producing nations bring their goods to it.

This is part of the obstacles. Nobody is against value addition, the question is how to. Sri lanka had some serious entrepreneurs also who have propelled the industry. KTDA doesn't have the wherewithal, expertise or risk tolerance. Gold crown beverages seems to be doing it https://www.wsj.com/articles/kenyan-tea-a-reliable-export-brews-a-market-at-home-1488796208
And where would farmers take their tea if the buyers withdrew from auction? Its not like the farmers have great option either. Solution either buy existing global brand  e.g lipton https://www.wsj.com/articles/tea-giant-weighs-giving-up-on-tea-11580380902 or create a global brand. Already uniliver wants to exit the business so imagine forcing them to value addd in kenya.

You are right. Right policies can create good business environments. A ten year tax incentive, starting at 0 tax the first few years, can incentivize businesses to add value before export instead of outright banning exports. Farmers lost because they had nobody to buy their crop.
Even tea processing can take the same approach, starting with coops. S. Korea does it and they make good cash. But they dont get tax subsidies.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: Georgesoros on September 13, 2021, 06:29:45 PM
Yes we better buy it. This how gov can assist farmers. Unless value chain is built here - we will become slaves of export market. I believe where we have market dominance - we should make it work.

Surely if kenyans can afford to buy dust - for more 1,000 ksh - why are we selling premium tea abroad for 190-300shs?

We surely talk to other countries - and all coordinate to ban export of unpacked tea. What is complicated about branding and packaging tea - and we start selling them for 10-20usd instead of 2 dollars - that is like 10 times more value. Most of difficult manufacturing we do here.....it just branding, marketting and the works.

Let us start to build Brand KENYA - through our tea.

And where would farmers take their tea if the buyers withdrew from auction? Its not like the farmers have great option either. Solution either buy existing global brand  e.g lipton https://www.wsj.com/articles/tea-giant-weighs-giving-up-on-tea-11580380902 or create a global brand. Already uniliver wants to exit the business so imagine forcing them to value addd in kenya.

Little Rwanda did it with coffee but Kenya can't do it.

Maajabu ya Musa

Something is wrong with this country.

The Rwanda leadership has created a vision for the country, so they've been able to accomplish a lot in such little time. It appears that policies drive most of everything in Rwanda. Leadership is just there to push it. In Kenya, leaders have created a vision for their tribe (meaning those they /steal/eat/collude with), and progress has been slow.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 13, 2021, 06:36:36 PM
We already do tea processing here
What we do after that - sell our processed tea in bulk
What they go and do outside kenya is to mix our tea with low quality tea - and PACKAGE it.
At best they only buy mixer - to add herbs.

We need to ban selling of unpacked tea.

Sudan had even banned import of unpacked tea - but Kenya run to Sudan - pleading to be allowed to sell tea in bulk.

We cannot be nice when we have worked to dominate the black tea market.

Let them go and find other teas and see how far they go...meanwhile if pakistani buyers want to pack tea - do it in Mombasa  - and gov will charge them requisite taxes...

Our tea value will increase ten fold.


You are right. Right policies can create good business environments. A ten year tax incentive, starting at 0 tax the first few years, can incentivize businesses to add value before export instead of outright banning exports. Farmers lost because they had nobody to buy their crop.
Even tea processing can take the same approach, starting with coops. S. Korea does it and they make good cash. But they dont get tax subsidies.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 13, 2021, 06:39:36 PM
Why are we being nice?  The tea packers should pack their tea here in small packages, blend here and write a big made in kenya; and pay the taxes here; There is no processing they are going to add in their country. It's like Toyota allowing us to import their cars - and stick a made in kenya badge.
(http://newsofasia.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/BF-AO761A_KENYA_9U_20170302161507.jpg)
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 13, 2021, 07:17:54 PM

Little Rwanda did it with coffee but Kenya can't do it.

Maajabu ya Musa

Something is wrong with this country.
Which is that Rwandese coffee brand?
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 13, 2021, 07:34:42 PM
Why are we being nice?  The tea packers should pack their tea here in small packages, blend here and write a big made in kenya; and pay the taxes here; There is no processing they are going to add in their country. It's like Toyota allowing us to import their cars - and stick a made in kenya badge.
(http://newsofasia.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/BF-AO761A_KENYA_9U_20170302161507.jpg)
Have you looked at cost of production in Kenya? I mean from regulation compliance, taxes to logistics etc. This are the factors to consider for multinationals. Banning export without addressing the obstacles is really shortsighted. The price would immediately collapse without buyers. BTW, farmers need to create their own brand e.g ocean spray or sunkist , otherwise even if private corporations setup in kenya and create a global brand, farmers wouldn't benefit.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: RV Pundit on September 13, 2021, 07:51:29 PM
Yes, but once the big brands are here, kenya farmers can start creating their own value chain. Right now farmers are NOT making any money. It's rock-bottom. The labour cost alone minus fertilizers leave the farmer waiting for bonus only
Have you looked at cost of production in Kenya? I mean from regulation compliance, taxes to logistics etc. This are the factors to consider for multinationals. Banning export without addressing the obstacles is really shortsighted. The price would immediately collapse without buyers. BTW, farmers need to create their own brand e.g ocean spray or sunkist , otherwise even if private corporations setup in kenya and create a global brand, farmers wouldn't benefit.
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on September 14, 2021, 02:21:33 AM

Which is that Rwandese coffee brand?

Rwanda Bean

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61pZ-lPJ0BL._SY445_.jpg)
Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: Arcadian_Dreamer on September 14, 2021, 02:28:42 AM
Rwandan entrepreneur dared to dream big and now he is taking his Coffee Brand Global!

Title: Re: Nigeria agriclutural reforms - Ruto should copy this
Post by: hk on September 14, 2021, 06:01:46 AM
Rwandan entrepreneur dared to dream big and now he is taking his Coffee Brand Global!

This is single origin coffee company that buy green beans in Rwanda, roast and package in america. There several Kenya immigrants owned companies like this in america e.g kikwetu, kahawa 1893. Hell even Waiguru opened a coffee shop in new york. Bottomline all these companies roast and package their coffee in America not in Rwanda or Kenya. And all of them sell less than 20 tonnes of coffee annually.