Author Topic: The Lord's Day (Read 114531 times)

GeeMail · « **Reply #160 on:** February 19, 2015, 03:47:02 PM »

https://text.egwwritings.org/publication.php?pubtype=Book&bookCode=GC&lang=en&pagenumber=592

Those who honor the Bible Sabbath will be denounced as enemies of law and order, as breaking down the moral restraints of society, causing anarchy and corruption, and calling down the judgments of God upon the earth. Their conscientious scruples will be pronounced obstinacy, stubbornness, and contempt of authority. They will be accused of disaffection toward the government. Ministers who deny the obligation of the divine law will present from the pulpit the duty of yielding obedience to the civil authorities as ordained of God. In legislative halls and courts of justice, commandment keepers will be misrepresented and condemned. A false coloring will be given to their words; the worst construction will be put upon their motives.
Though they blind their own eyes to the fact, they are now adopting a course which will lead to the persecution of those who conscientiously refuse to do what the rest of the Christian world are doing, and acknowledge the claims of the papal sabbath.
The dignitaries of church and state will unite to bribe, persuade, or compel all classes to honor the Sunday. The lack of divine authority will be supplied by oppressive enactments.

GeeMail · « **Reply #161 on:** March 10, 2015, 03:13:41 PM »

Sunday keepers now claim Sunday to be the Sabbath and are actively calling for it to be set aside as a rest day. The argument has shifted from claims that Sabbath (Saturday) and Sunday are different. That Rome did not change the day (Daniel 7:25). That Sunday is kept because it was apostolic tradition. That the law (the 10 commandments) were nailed to the cross. That believers should not "Judaize" by keeping the Sabbath (Saturday). That protestants follow sola scriptura except on the Sunday issue (because not a single verse calls for Sunday worship or abrogates the Sabbath commandment). And lately, Sunday is the Sabbath and we should keep it just like the Jews did by not doing sports, shopping and so on. Let me introduce the Lord's Day Alliance of Baptists, Catholics, Episcopalians, Friends, Lutherans, Methodists, Non-Denominationalists, Orthodox, Presbyterians, and Reformed traditional believers.

http://www.ldausa.org/lda/about/

vooke · « **Reply #162 on:** March 10, 2015, 10:42:33 PM »

EGW managed to whip up enough frenzy around Saturday. Adventists still hallucinate about the epic battle royale where they will be persecuted for Sabbath Keeping

Nuff Sed is probably bracing herself for that BS when there will be the Sunday Law and anybody not worshiping on Sunday will be executed. This diabolical exercise will be overseen by Roman Catholic Church. It will be the Mark of the Beast.

While I can forgive EGW for her illiteracy and retarded imagination, I can't excuse her sheeple who still approach God with half-thawed brains and imagine they be the best thing on earth since the apostles

GeeMail · « **Reply #163 on:** March 12, 2015, 02:53:03 PM »

Meanwhile, in the continent in which Luther was born, a cousin of the American Lord's Day Alliance marches on.

http://www.europeansundayalliance.eu/site/foundingstatement

A work-free Sunday and decent working hours are of paramount importance for citizens throughout Europe. We, the undersigned, believe that all citizens of the European Union are entitled to benefit from decent working hours that, as a matter of principle, exclude working late evenings, nights, bank holidays and Sundays. We believe that today, legislation and practices in place at EU and Member States levels need to be more protective of the health, safety, dignity of everyone and should more attentively promote the reconciliation of professional and family life. We believe that social cohesion in the European citizenship should be reinforced.

GeeMail · « **Reply #164 on:** March 12, 2015, 02:54:21 PM »

I believe anybody with a good point to make can do so without having to resort to ad hominem.

Quote from: vooke on March 10, 2015, 10:42:33 PM

EGW managed to whip up enough frenzy around Saturday. Adventists still hallucinate about the epic battle royale where they will be persecuted for Sabbath Keeping

Nuff Sed is probably bracing herself for that BS when there will be the Sunday Law and anybody not worshiping on Sunday will be executed. This diabolical exercise will be overseen by Roman Catholic Church. It will be the Mark of the Beast.

While I can forgive EGW for her illiteracy and retarded imagination, I can't excuse her sheeple who still approach God with half-thawed brains and imagine they be the best thing on earth since the apostles

vooke · « **Reply #165 on:** March 13, 2015, 08:55:29 AM »

No class of people denounces the Roman Church more strongly than Adventists do. They pronounce them deceivers, false teachers, perverters of history, and their boastful claims they repudiate as worthless, all except on the change of the Sabbath. Here they hold up, and publish to the world, her mere assertion as settling the question beyond dispute. The Catholics offer no proof of their claim that they changed the day. They assert that they did and leave it there. Adventists gladly accept this without any proof. Consider now: The Roman Catholic Church makes all the following boastful claims:

1.The Roman Catholic Church is the only true Church.
2.St. Peter was the first Pope of the Holy Catholic Church.
3.The present Pope of Rome is the lineal divinely appointed successor of St. Peter.
4.The Pope of Rome is the Vicar of Jesus Christ upon earth.
5.The Pope is infallible.
6.The Pope holds the keys to heaven.
7.All, including Adventists, outside of the Catholic Church are heretics.
8.Protestants are indebted to Catholics for the Holy Scriptures as it is given to them.
9.Catholic priests have authority to forgive sins.
10.The Roman Catholic Church changed the Sabbath from the seventh day to Sunday, the first day.

The Catholic Church strongly claims all these ten items. What do Seventh-Day Adventists say to these assertions? They quickly deny all the first nine, say they are all lies, without any foundation in fact. But when you come to the tenth one, the change of the Sabbath, then Adventists fall over each other to accept every word of this as the infallible truth. It settles the question beyond dispute. "The Catholic Church just owns it right up" that it did really do the job!!

To illustrate: Adventists bring their chief witness into court. But when he is sworn they acknowledge that nine-tenths of his testimony is a lie, is perjury, but one-tenth of what he swears to is true. On this they claim they have won their case! Selah!

Any judge would quickly throw out of court such testimony as worthless, yet this is the witness, and the only witness, Adventists can produce saying that the Roman Church changed the Sabbath. See any of their publications on this point.

Read on
http://www.truthorfables.com/The_Lord's_Canright.htm

GeeMail · « **Reply #166 on:** March 16, 2015, 04:38:11 PM »

Quote from: vooke on March 13, 2015, 08:55:29 AM

No class of people denounces the Roman Church more strongly than Adventists do. They pronounce them deceivers, false teachers, perverters of history, and their boastful claims they repudiate as worthless, all except on the change of the Sabbath. Here they hold up, and publish to the world, her mere assertion as settling the question beyond dispute. The Catholics offer no proof of their claim that they changed the day. They assert that they did and leave it there. Adventists gladly accept this without any proof. Consider now: The Roman Catholic Church makes all the following boastful claims:

http://www.godssabbathtruth.com/SabbathStatementsByTheCatholicChurch.pdf

Quote

The Catholic Church strongly claims all these ten items. What do Seventh-Day Adventists say to these assertions? They quickly deny all the first nine, say they are all lies, without any foundation in fact.

Wrong again. There is ample biblical evidence that these assertions are false, and Adventists have presented these evidences over and over.

vooke · « **Reply #167 on:** March 17, 2015, 11:36:01 AM »

Nuff Sed,

You are full of BS just like a biogas plant
1. Show me where Catholicism 'changed' Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday
2. Debate me on the error of #1

If you can steer clear of garbage and respond to these, you'd have a point. But lo and behold, you been flapping gum about a 'change' you can't proof

Quote from: Daily Bread on March 16, 2015, 04:38:11 PM

Quote from: vooke on March 13, 2015, 08:55:29 AM
No class of people denounces the Roman Church more strongly than Adventists do. They pronounce them deceivers, false teachers, perverters of history, and their boastful claims they repudiate as worthless, all except on the change of the Sabbath. Here they hold up, and publish to the world, her mere assertion as settling the question beyond dispute. The Catholics offer no proof of their claim that they changed the day. They assert that they did and leave it there. Adventists gladly accept this without any proof. Consider now: The Roman Catholic Church makes all the following boastful claims:
http://www.godssabbathtruth.com/SabbathStatementsByTheCatholicChurch.pdf

Quote
The Catholic Church strongly claims all these ten items. What do Seventh-Day Adventists say to these assertions? They quickly deny all the first nine, say they are all lies, without any foundation in fact.

Wrong again. There is ample biblical evidence that these assertions are false, and Adventists have presented these evidences over and over.

GeeMail · « **Reply #168 on:** March 17, 2015, 12:27:18 PM »

Prof ad hominem in his element. Why don't you face me like a man instead of calling Nuff Sed names? I have provided links, documents and passages where Rome says they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. You can either agree with them or provide proof to the contrary.

I'm not keen on debating you on anything let alone "the only true church" controversy. Once you are cleansed of ad hominem we can talk.

vooke · « **Reply #169 on:** March 17, 2015, 05:50:03 PM »

Nuff Sed,
You can always deny you are Nuff Sed and that will be it. In fact, I will apologize for every count I have called you Nuff Sed when you are not!

EVERY source you can imagine, every -paedia, every authority, including scriptures shows Sunday worship predating Catholicism. How do I sit and debate origins of aliens when there has never been proof of their existence? you THINK by inquiry, aksin questions;

1. Was there a 'change'?
2. Who 'changed' what?
3. When was what 'changed'?

In the entire universe, NOBODY save Jews was keen on keeping Sabbath any more than they was keen on keeping the rest of the Feasts AFTER Pentecost.

Imagine some bazungu claiming that Kenia got Independence in 2003. Now imagine on the basis of that claim insisting that Kenia got independence in 2003 as opposed to 1963. I would prescribe solitary confinement in Mathari for them. I would also strongly insist on sterilizing them to clean the human genetic pool of their schizophrenia

Quote from: Daily Bread on March 17, 2015, 12:27:18 PM

Prof ad hominem in his element. Why don't you face me like a man instead of calling Nuff Sed names? I have provided links, documents and passages where Rome says they changed the Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. You can either agree with them or provide proof to the contrary.

I'm not keen on debating you on anything let alone "the only true church" controversy. Once you are cleansed of ad hominem we can talk.

GeeMail · « **Reply #170 on:** March 18, 2015, 10:55:45 AM »

Quote from: vooke on March 17, 2015, 05:50:03 PM

Nuff Sed,
You can always deny you are Nuff Sed and that will be it. In fact, I will apologize for every count I have called you Nuff Sed when you are not!

EVERY source you can imagine, every -paedia, every authority, including scriptures shows Sunday worship predating Catholicism. How do I sit and debate origins of aliens when there has never been proof of their existence? you THINK by inquiry, aksin questions;

I'm not interested in sideshows. You either address me or another. Please show the authorities you refer to and the Bible verses that demonstrate Sunday worship. While at it, show where Saturday (Sabbath) worship of the 4th commandment was abrogated. I'm asking this for the umpteenth time.

Quote

1. Was there a 'change'?

There was a change of Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. The quotes from Rome acknowledge it, and today every Sunday most Christians including pseudo-protestants go to church instead of Saturday. Protestants even on this forum have made the suicidal argument that the new Sabbath is Sunday, the Ten Commandments were nailed to the cross, the 10 Commandments are not different from ceremonial laws, Jesus rose on Sunday so we worship Sunday and so on.

Quote

2. Who 'changed' what?

Quote

3. When was what 'changed'?

AD 364 at the Council of Laodicea.

Quote

In the entire universe, NOBODY save Jews was keen on keeping Sabbath any more than they was keen on keeping the rest of the Feasts AFTER Pentecost.

Nobody, really? From where do you get that impression? How about this?
Acts 13
13 Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. 14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Among those in Paul's company were Gentiles.
Acts 13:1
Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

vooke · « **Reply #171 on:** March 18, 2015, 01:45:16 PM »

Nuff Sed,
Thinking for the indoctrinated is nightmarish but you are trying. Well done!

Was there a change?
1. There was no command to worship on any day of the week. Paul makes it clear that he is INDIFFERENT to esteeming any day ABOVE any other or all alike and he will have nobody judge us. How could a man who esteemed Saturday above any other weekday utter thus?

2. The Sabbath has always remained Saturday. Regular Sunday meetings commemorating resurrection of our Lord don't make Sunday Sabbath. Christians with no obligation to esteem any day above the other settled on Sunday as their preferred day of fellowship

3. Like Paul, I don't judge you for keeping Saturday nor Christians in Muslim countries for fellowship ping on Fridays. It don't matter to Holy Spirit, to Paul. Why should it matter to me?

4. Christians departed from Sabbath keeping in the same way they departed from Passover, Pentecost,Weeks, Tabernacles. And circumcision. Those are shadows long fulfilled in Christ. They are as guilty of Sabbath breaking as they are of failure to circumcise

Who changed what?
Am glad your only proof is 'Rome says'.
See that's your problem. You follow hearsay. Go bck to my example. Would claim of 2003 as the yer we attained Independence make it so?

No, because we have vast proof outside Catholicism that shows Sunday Worship predating Rome. Of course your definition of Rome and its age would be contested by kadame but it's clear that Sunday worship is as old as the church.

Once again I wish to remind you that after the resurrection of Jesus, after his ascension, after Pentecost, the then church which was largely Jewish persisted in Jewishness and attempted to impose some of this on the Gentile believers. This ocassioned the Jerusalem Council of Acts 15.Even AFTER the Council, we have the Jews keeping their feasts, circumcising, sacrifices,praying at specific hours,taking Nazirite vows, things we BOTH agree are not binding as they was nailed to the cross. It follows that Sabbath keeping as recorded among the Jews in the early church is no more proof of the persisting of the Sabbath commandment into the New Covenant any more than Paul keeping Passover is.

When was what changed?
364AD the magic year.
You have stepped outside scriptures into secular history. Let's use history to interrogate your claim.

Did we have Christians BEFORE 364AD who were keeping the Sabbath only to have their liberties violently revoked during this year? Obviously if you can collect information on 364AD, you should know what was going down in 363AD and before

Quote from: Daily Bread on March 18, 2015, 10:55:45 AM

Quote from: vooke on March 17, 2015, 05:50:03 PM
Nuff Sed,
You can always deny you are Nuff Sed and that will be it. In fact, I will apologize for every count I have called you Nuff Sed when you are not!

EVERY source you can imagine, every -paedia, every authority, including scriptures shows Sunday worship predating Catholicism. How do I sit and debate origins of aliens when there has never been proof of their existence? you THINK by inquiry, aksin questions;

I'm not interested in sideshows. You either address me or another. Please show the authorities you refer to and the Bible verses that demonstrate Sunday worship. While at it, show where Saturday (Sabbath) worship of the 4th commandment was abrogated. I'm asking this for the umpteenth time.

Quote
1. Was there a 'change'?

There was a change of Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday. The quotes from Rome acknowledge it, and today every Sunday most Christians including pseudo-protestants go to church instead of Saturday. Protestants even on this forum have made the suicidal argument that the new Sabbath is Sunday, the Ten Commandments were nailed to the cross, the 10 Commandments are not different from ceremonial laws, Jesus rose on Sunday so we worship Sunday and so on.

Quote
2. Who 'changed' what?

Quote
3. When was what 'changed'?
AD 364 at the Council of Laodicea.

Quote
In the entire universe, NOBODY save Jews was keen on keeping Sabbath any more than they was keen on keeping the rest of the Feasts AFTER Pentecost.

Nobody, really? From where do you get that impression? How about this?
Acts 13
13 Now when Paul and his company loosed from Paphos, they came to Perga in Pamphylia: and John departing from them returned to Jerusalem. 14 But when they departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down.

Among those in Paul's company were Gentiles.
Acts 13:1
Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

42 And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.
44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God.
45 But when the Jews saw the multitudes, they were filled with envy, and spake against those things which were spoken by Paul, contradicting and blaspheming.

vooke · « **Reply #172 on:** March 18, 2015, 02:33:47 PM »

Why is Nuff Sed determined against common sense, history,facts and logic to finger Rome for 'changing Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday'?

Daniel 7:25 (KJV)
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time

This verse. Daniel prophesied of a wicked ruler and We are told he would attempt to 'change times and laws'. Scanning the entire history, they lack anybody fitting the bill. The closest fit is 'change of Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday' in 364AD, and of course whoever did that MUST be the wicked King Daniel spoke of.

Debunking this theory knocks the wind out of Nuff Sed's sails. Her entire theology premised on identity of Daniel's wicked ruler crumbles. Besides, whoever claimed that there was a change in 364AD of the laws of God is found to be a liar. This is the same person Nuff Sed sect claims is the 'spirit of prophecy'. The single-most powerful influence on her theology,Ellen Gould White is called out.

Nuff Sed is left with an empty shell of a religion. For this, she must defend her 'God's laws were changed in 364AD' with all her might

GeeMail · « **Reply #173 on:** March 18, 2015, 02:53:33 PM »

Quote

1. There was no command to worship on any day of the week. Paul makes it clear that he is INDIFFERENT to esteeming any day ABOVE any other or all alike and he will have nobody judge us. How could a man who esteemed Saturday above any other weekday utter thus?

You seem to forget how far this thread has come. The argument for Sunday worship by protestants is cyclical but suicidal still. If there was no command to worship on a particular day, what have you been arguing about?

Exodus 20
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

Quote

2. The Sabbath has always remained Saturday. Regular Sunday meetings commemorating resurrection of our Lord don't make Sunday Sabbath. Christians with no obligation to esteem any day above the other settled on Sunday as their preferred day of fellowship

You have conveniently forgotten the posts in which I showed Rome calling Sunday the Sabbath and protestantism following blindly like a sheep to the slaughter. Do you want me to repost?

From the Westminster Confession of Faith
7. As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in his Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him: which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week; and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,
8. This Sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe a holy rest, all the day, from their own works, words, and thoughts about their worldly employments and recreations, but also are taken up, the whole time, in the public and private exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.

Quote

3. Like Paul, I don't judge you for keeping Saturday nor Christians in Muslim countries for fellowship ping on Fridays. It don't matter to Holy Spirit, to Paul. Why should it matter to me?

The point is not to judge (condemn), but believers are called to choose between right and wrong. To choose what is sin and what is not is also called judgement, which is what Paul is referring to here just like Joshua asked Israel to choose this day whom you will serve. Nobody condemns you for choosing to sin, but to tell the truth apart from lies is a call of duty (Josh 24:15).

Quote

4. Christians departed from Sabbath keeping in the same way they departed from Passover, Pentecost,Weeks, Tabernacles. And circumcision. Those are shadows long fulfilled in Christ. They are as guilty of Sabbath breaking as they are of failure to circumcise

I ask again, please show where and how this happened. Specifically show even one Bible verse abrogating the fourth commandment. Contrariwise, I have shown verses demonstrating Sabbath (Saturday worship) in apostolic times. I'm aware you have thrown in the words "apostolic practice" to fire the suicidal argument. What is Acts 13 saying about apostolic practice concerning the Sabbath?

Failure to keep circumcision is well explained by Paul. Where does he or any other apostle show the same with the Sabbath? Can you show anything that makes circumcision equal to the Sabbath commandment or any other of the Ten Commandments?
I'm also conscious that you attempted in a previous post to claim that NOBODY (your emphasis) kept the Sabbath save the Jews. Acts 13 denounced you in public and you had to run back to Rome to fish another suicidal argument. In the process, you have called Adventists names, lampooned Ellen G. White and generally attempted to ruin a good discussion. What Rome has done it has openly admitted. Has it occurred to you that you are weeping louder than the bereaved?

GeeMail · « **Reply #174 on:** March 18, 2015, 02:59:06 PM »

Quote from: vooke on March 18, 2015, 02:33:47 PM

Why is Nuff Sed determined against common sense, history,facts and logic to finger Rome for 'changing Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday'?

Daniel 7:25 (KJV)
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time

This verse. Daniel prophesied of a wicked ruler and We are told he would attempt to 'change times and laws'. Scanning the entire history, they lack anybody fitting the bill. The closest fit is 'change of Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday' in 364AD, and of course whoever did that MUST be the wicked King Daniel spoke of.

Debunking this theory knocks the wind out of Nuff Sed's sails. Her entire theology premised on identity of Daniel's wicked ruler crumbles. Besides, whoever claimed that there was a change in 364AD of the laws of God is found to be a liar. This is the same person Nuff Sed sect claims is the 'spirit of prophecy'. The single-most powerful influence on her theology,Ellen Gould White is called out.

Nuff Sed is left with an empty shell of a religion. For this, she must defend her 'God's laws were changed in 364AD' with all her might

Typically you throw in NuffSed when faced with the bitter truth. Daniel 7:25 is a good point to raise. If the Sabbath change is not a fulfillment of Daniel 7:25, what is? What is your understanding of Daniel's prophecy?

http://reluctant-messenger.com/council-of-laodicea.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htm
The Council of Laodicea, Canon 29

Quote

Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14335a.htmthe holy Doctors of the Church had decreed that the whole glory of the Jewish Sabbath had been transferred to the Sunday, and that Christians must keep the Sunday holy in the same way as the Jews had been commanded to keep holy the Sabbath Day. He especially insisted on the people hearing the whole of the Mass and not leaving the church after the Epistle and the Gospel had been read. He taught them that they should come to Vespers and spend the rest of the day in pious reading and prayer. As with the Jewish Sabbath, the observance of the Christian Sunday began with sundown on Saturday and lasted till the same time on Sunday.

Quote

You have stepped outside scriptures into secular history. Let's use history to interrogate your claim.

And now you claim I have gone outside the Bible into secular history. See what history has to say about the Sabbath from the links I've posted. Secular history confirms that Greeks, just as noted in Acts 13, indeed kept the Sabbath on Saturday. History and the Bible have conspired against lies.

Quote

Canon 16

The Gospels are to be read on the Sabbath [i.e. Saturday], with the other Scriptures.

Before the arrangement of the Ecclesiastical Psalmody was settled, neither the Gospel nor the other Scriptures were accustomed to be read on the Sabbath. But out of regard to the canons which forbade fasting or kneeling on the Sabbath, there were no services, so that there might be as much feasting as possible. This the fathers prohibit, and decree that on the Sabbath the whole ecclesiastical office shall be said.

Neander (Kirchengesch., 2d ed., vol. iij., p. 565 et seq.) suggests in addition to the interpretation just given another, viz.: that it was the custom in many parts of the ancient Church to keep every Saturday as a feast in commemoration of the Creation. Neander also suggests that possibly some Judaizers read on the Sabbath only the Old Testament; he, however, himself remarks that in this case ????????? and ?????? ?????? would require the article.

Van Espen.

Among the Greeks the Sabbath was kept exactly as the Lord's day except so far as the cessation of work was concerned, wherefore the Council wishes that, as on Sundays, after the other lessons there should follow the Gospel.

For it is evident that by the intention of the Church the whole Divine Office was designed for the edification and instruction of the people, and especially was this the case on feast days, when the people were apt to be present in large numbers.

Here we may note the origin of our present [Western] discipline, by which on Sundays and feast days the Gospel is wont to be read with the other Scriptures in the canonical hours, while such is not the case on ferial days, or in the order for ferias and simples.

vooke · « **Reply #175 on:** March 18, 2015, 03:31:58 PM »

Nuff Sed,
You are all over.
I could have easily said there is no commnd to keep the feasts and you would immediately flash Leviticus. You know what I mean. I mean there is NO command to observe Sabbath for Christians any more than there is one to observe Jewish feasts.

Christian worshipping on Sunday is NO COMMANDMENT; it is a tradition, there is nothing you do on Sunday that you can't do on any other day. God is indifferent to days. Comprende? This thread started with you turning green with envy over usage of the word Lord's Day. I have produced enough proof tha t this was referring to Sunday both in and outside the scriptures.

Rome calling Thursday Sabbath don't make it Sabbath. They call Mary a perpetual virgin. Do you think Mary retained her virginity while you are told it remained UNTIL Jesus was born and she had other kids?

Tell me, why did Paul keep the feasts yet you claim they were ceremonial and were nailed to the cross?
Acts 18:21 (KJV)
But bade them farewell, saying, I must by all means keep this feast that cometh in Jerusalem: but I will return again unto you, if God will. And he sailed from Ephesus

Why did Paul take the Nazirite Vow and offer sacrifices yet Christ the ultimate sacrifice had been offered? Did he miss the memo?

Acts 21:26 (ESV)
26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day he purified himself along with them and went into the temple, giving notice when the days of purification would be fulfilled and the offering presented for each one of them.

A Jew keeping Sabbath,circumcising or taking Nazirite Vow is no cue for Nuff Sed to do so. In fact it is extreme hypocrisy for SDAs to throw around Sabbath keeping by the early church as proof of continuity of the Sabbath commnd while ignoring all other Jewishness that persisted.

Look at Paul circumcising a half-Jew Timothy (Acts 16:3) and then writing an epistle to the effect that circumcision AVAILETH nothing (Galatians 5:6)

So, Nuff Sed, at what point was your so-called 'ceremonial laws' abrogated?

Quote from: Daily Bread on March 18, 2015, 02:53:33 PM

Quote
1. There was no command to worship on any day of the week. Paul makes it clear that he is INDIFFERENT to esteeming any day ABOVE any other or all alike and he will have nobody judge us. How could a man who esteemed Saturday above any other weekday utter thus?

You seem to forget how far this thread has come. The argument for Sunday worship by protestants is cyclical but suicidal still. If there was no command to worship on a particular day, what have you been arguing about?

Exodus 20
8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

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2. The Sabbath has always remained Saturday. Regular Sunday meetings commemorating resurrection of our Lord don't make Sunday Sabbath. Christians with no obligation to esteem any day above the other settled on Sunday as their preferred day of fellowship

You have conveniently forgotten the posts in which I showed Rome calling Sunday the Sabbath and protestantism following blindly like a sheep to the slaughter. Do you want me to repost?

From the Westminster Confession of Faith
7. As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in his Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him: which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week; and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week,
8. This Sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe a holy rest, all the day, from their own works, words, and thoughts about their worldly employments and recreations, but also are taken up, the whole time, in the public and private exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.

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3. Like Paul, I don't judge you for keeping Saturday nor Christians in Muslim countries for fellowship ping on Fridays. It don't matter to Holy Spirit, to Paul. Why should it matter to me?

The point is not to judge (condemn), but believers are called to choose between right and wrong. To choose what is sin and what is not is also called judgement, which is what Paul is referring to here just like Joshua asked Israel to choose this day whom you will serve. Nobody condemns you for choosing to sin, but to tell the truth apart from lies is a call of duty (Josh 24:15).

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4. Christians departed from Sabbath keeping in the same way they departed from Passover, Pentecost,Weeks, Tabernacles. And circumcision. Those are shadows long fulfilled in Christ. They are as guilty of Sabbath breaking as they are of failure to circumcise

I ask again, please show where and how this happened. Specifically show even one Bible verse abrogating the fourth commandment. Contrariwise, I have shown verses demonstrating Sabbath (Saturday worship) in apostolic times. I'm aware you have thrown in the words "apostolic practice" to fire the suicidal argument. What is Acts 13 saying about apostolic practice concerning the Sabbath?

Failure to keep circumcision is well explained by Paul. Where does he or any other apostle show the same with the Sabbath? Can you show anything that makes circumcision equal to the Sabbath commandment or any other of the Ten Commandments?
I'm also conscious that you attempted in a previous post to claim that NOBODY (your emphasis) kept the Sabbath save the Jews. Acts 13 denounced you in public and you had to run back to Rome to fish another suicidal argument. In the process, you have called Adventists names, lampooned Ellen G. White and generally attempted to ruin a good discussion. What Rome has done it has openly admitted. Has it occurred to you that you are weeping louder than the bereaved?

GeeMail · « **Reply #176 on:** March 18, 2015, 03:38:11 PM »

From the Catholic Encyclopedia
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14335a.htm

vooke · « **Reply #177 on:** March 18, 2015, 04:07:44 PM »

Nuff Sed,
You don't fit your prophetess' madness into a prophecy;
EGW: "I saw that God had not changed the Sabbath, for He never changes. But the Pope had changed it from the seventh to the first day of the week: for he was to change time and laws." A Word to the Little Flock, "A Vision, April 7, 1847", p. 18.

EGW: "In a view given June 27, 1850, My accompanying angel said, "Time is almost finished. ..."The Pope had changed the day of rest from the seventh to the first day of the week." Early Writings, "Mark of the Beast", p. 65.

http://www.truthorfables.com/Pope_Did_Not_Change_Sabbath_Sunday.htm

Which Gentiles kept Sabbath? It was EXPEDIENCY
https://www.gci.org/law/otl12

Quote from: Daily Bread on March 18, 2015, 02:59:06 PM

Quote from: vooke on March 18, 2015, 02:33:47 PM
Why is Nuff Sed determined against common sense, history,facts and logic to finger Rome for 'changing Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday'?

Daniel 7:25 (KJV)
And he shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time

This verse. Daniel prophesied of a wicked ruler and We are told he would attempt to 'change times and laws'. Scanning the entire history, they lack anybody fitting the bill. The closest fit is 'change of Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday' in 364AD, and of course whoever did that MUST be the wicked King Daniel spoke of.

Debunking this theory knocks the wind out of Nuff Sed's sails. Her entire theology premised on identity of Daniel's wicked ruler crumbles. Besides, whoever claimed that there was a change in 364AD of the laws of God is found to be a liar. This is the same person Nuff Sed sect claims is the 'spirit of prophecy'. The single-most powerful influence on her theology,Ellen Gould White is called out.

Nuff Sed is left with an empty shell of a religion. For this, she must defend her 'God's laws were changed in 364AD' with all her might

Typically you throw in NuffSed when faced with the bitter truth. Daniel 7:25 is a good point to raise. If the Sabbath change is not a fulfillment of Daniel 7:25, what is? What is your understanding of Daniel's prophecy?

http://reluctant-messenger.com/council-of-laodicea.htm
http://www.newadvent.org/fathers/3806.htm
The Council of Laodicea, Canon 29
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Christians must not judaize by resting on the Sabbath, but must work on that day, rather honouring the Lord's Day; and, if they can, resting then as Christians. But if any shall be found to be judaizers, let them be anathema from Christ.

From the Catholic Encyclopedia http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14335a.htmthe holy Doctors of the Church had decreed that the whole glory of the Jewish Sabbath had been transferred to the Sunday, and that Christians must keep the Sunday holy in the same way as the Jews had been commanded to keep holy the Sabbath Day. He especially insisted on the people hearing the whole of the Mass and not leaving the church after the Epistle and the Gospel had been read. He taught them that they should come to Vespers and spend the rest of the day in pious reading and prayer. As with the Jewish Sabbath, the observance of the Christian Sunday began with sundown on Saturday and lasted till the same time on Sunday.

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You have stepped outside scriptures into secular history. Let's use history to interrogate your claim.
And now you claim I have gone outside the Bible into secular history. See what history has to say about the Sabbath from the links I've posted. Secular history confirms that Greeks, just as noted in Acts 13, indeed kept the Sabbath on Saturday. History and the Bible have conspired against lies.

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Canon 16

The Gospels are to be read on the Sabbath [i.e. Saturday], with the other Scriptures.

Before the arrangement of the Ecclesiastical Psalmody was settled, neither the Gospel nor the other Scriptures were accustomed to be read on the Sabbath. But out of regard to the canons which forbade fasting or kneeling on the Sabbath, there were no services, so that there might be as much feasting as possible. This the fathers prohibit, and decree that on the Sabbath the whole ecclesiastical office shall be said.

Neander (Kirchengesch., 2d ed., vol. iij., p. 565 et seq.) suggests in addition to the interpretation just given another, viz.: that it was the custom in many parts of the ancient Church to keep every Saturday as a feast in commemoration of the Creation. Neander also suggests that possibly some Judaizers read on the Sabbath only the Old Testament; he, however, himself remarks that in this case ????????? and ?????? ?????? would require the article.

Van Espen.

Among the Greeks the Sabbath was kept exactly as the Lord's day except so far as the cessation of work was concerned, wherefore the Council wishes that, as on Sundays, after the other lessons there should follow the Gospel.

For it is evident that by the intention of the Church the whole Divine Office was designed for the edification and instruction of the people, and especially was this the case on feast days, when the people were apt to be present in large numbers.

Here we may note the origin of our present [Western] discipline, by which on Sundays and feast days the Gospel is wont to be read with the other Scriptures in the canonical hours, while such is not the case on ferial days, or in the order for ferias and simples.

GeeMail · « **Reply #178 on:** March 18, 2015, 04:19:01 PM »

You are not helping yourself. A single verse proving that the Sabbath commandment was abrogated will go along way to persuade believers to accept Sunday worship. As usual, you shoot yourself in the foot when you say "Christian worshipping on Sunday is NO COMMANDMENT; it is a tradition...." in a thread where you have cited "apostolic practice" as the basis of Sunday worship. Are you abandoning that suicidal argument now?

About what Paul did (once, mark you) by keeping a particular feast or purifying himself, have you not read John 20:19?

John 20
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Paul circumcised Timothy and purified himself for the same reason, with the intent of removing any barriers against the gospel.

I see you have now read and accepted what Rome says it did with the fourth commandment. You have no business weeping louder than them when their lies are called out, unless you personally want to fulfill the prophecy of the union between Rome, apostate Protestantism, the state and spirituality in the last days.

Finally, we see a protestant announcing in spite of himself that he is following Catholic tradition rather than the Bible. On what basis do you call yourself a protestant then?

vooke · « **Reply #179 on:** March 18, 2015, 04:21:26 PM »

Nuff Sed,
Unlike you who see the Beast in those esteeming a particular day, am far more blessed with intelligence; any day you esteem means NOTHING.

Holy Spirit demonstrates abrogation by having no man judge me over sabbaths,new moons or feasts. Note none of these was invented by man. God says, 'I commanded all these but not anymore'
Colossians 2:16 (ESV)
16 Therefore let no one pass judgment on you in questions of food and drink, or with regard to a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath

Holy Spirit by the pen of Paul shows abrogation by telling me that esteeming ALL days alike or some more than others is NOTHING and I should make up my mind on this. Imagine if Nuff Sed fornicating/lesbianism was all up to her convictions

Romans 14:5 (ESV)
5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind

I know you did a quick Google search on the Nazirite vow and in ignorance you ran into the fickle defense that the frequency of the act dictates its weight. That is just about the most harebrained hermeneutic I have ever heard. How many revelations did John have? Or Paul's encounter with Christ, how many were they? Peter, how many instances did he need to witness of Gentiles being baptized with the Holy Ghost before concluding that God is not respecter of persons?

Note Paul is recorded having taken the Nazirite vow TWICE and in the other instance, he was very far away from Jerusalem. Red your bible and quit substituting your devotion with Google and SDA apologist BS.

Acts 18:18 (ESV)
18 After this, Paul stayed many days longer and then took leave of the brothers and set sail for Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila. At Cenchreae he had cut his hair, for he was under a vow

Acts 20:21 (ESV)
16 For Paul had decided to sail past Ephesus, so that he might not have to spend time in Asia, for he was hastening to be at Jerusalem, if possible, on the day of Pentecost.

Slither back to the SDA garbage bin and explain to me why he was so DETERMINED to keep a feast that was abrogated, why he took the Vow the first time, and what frequency makes a practice doctrine

Repeat, a Jew keeping Sabbath is no cue for Nuff Sed to keep Sabbath any more than Paul taking a Nazirite Vow is. I know your head is spinning, take your time to prayerfully digest what I have just shared

Quote from: Daily Bread on March 18, 2015, 04:19:01 PM

You are not helping yourself. A single verse proving that the Sabbath commandment was abrogated will go along way to persuade believers to accept Sunday worship. As usual, you shoot yourself in the foot when you say "Christian worshipping on Sunday is NO COMMANDMENT; it is a tradition...." in a thread where you have cited "apostolic practice" as the basis of Sunday worship. Are you abandoning that suicidal argument now?

About what Paul did (once, mark you) by keeping a particular feast or purifying himself, have you not read John 20:19?

John 20
19 Then the same day at evening, being the first day of the week, when the doors were shut where the disciples were assembled for fear of the Jews, came Jesus and stood in the midst, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.

Paul circumcised Timothy and purified himself for the same reason, with the intent of removing any barriers against the gospel.

I see you have now read and accepted what Rome says it did with the fourth commandment. You have no busines weeping louder than them when their lies are called out, unless you personally want to fulfill the prophecy of the union between Rome, Protestantism, the state and spirituality in the last days.

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Author Topic: The Lord's Day (Read 114531 times)