Someone will eventually loose very badly. Just a question of time.If you have money you know you can afford to lose, do it. You may end up rich.
Bitcoin is here to stay. These are teething problems caused by greed. Currency is for transacting, trading and saving - not a commodity, stock or investment like greedy speculators are doing with cryptos. The blockchain came up after 2007-09 financial crisis when folks lost faith in the Fed. Bitcoin is a true market currency because there is no Fed to stabilize it - totally depends on supply and demand. So I don't see folks discarding cyrptos - in fact there are people buying Bitcoins and Ethereums big right now during this fake meltdown. Bitcoin saved wikileaks and other pariahs who work under water. The secrecy and independence are unprecedented. Growing acceptance by states and business will make it stable with time.
In short I will not sell my BTC.
How much was it when you bought?Bitcoin is here to stay. These are teething problems caused by greed. Currency is for transacting, trading and saving - not a commodity, stock or investment like greedy speculators are doing with cryptos. The blockchain came up after 2007-09 financial crisis when folks lost faith in the Fed. Bitcoin is a true market currency because there is no Fed to stabilize it - totally depends on supply and demand. So I don't see folks discarding cyrptos - in fact there are people buying Bitcoins and Ethereums big right now during this fake meltdown. Bitcoin saved wikileaks and other pariahs who work under water. The secrecy and independence are unprecedented. Growing acceptance by states and business will make it stable with time.
In short I will not sell my BTC.
How much was it when you bought?Bitcoin is here to stay. These are teething problems caused by greed. Currency is for transacting, trading and saving - not a commodity, stock or investment like greedy speculators are doing with cryptos. The blockchain came up after 2007-09 financial crisis when folks lost faith in the Fed. Bitcoin is a true market currency because there is no Fed to stabilize it - totally depends on supply and demand. So I don't see folks discarding cyrptos - in fact there are people buying Bitcoins and Ethereums big right now during this fake meltdown. Bitcoin saved wikileaks and other pariahs who work under water. The secrecy and independence are unprecedented. Growing acceptance by states and business will make it stable with time.
In short I will not sell my BTC.
Joe Kennedy is the father of former president John F. Kennedy.
Joe made most of his money in the stock market. He traded stocks in the roaring 20s when there was little regulation and "anything goes" attitude surrounding all of Wall Street.
Joe famously avoided the Great Depression, and stock market crash of 1929. He sold his entire portfolio days before the crash. But how did he do it? This one anecdote explains it all:
"Joe Kennedy exited the stock market in timely fashion after a shoeshine boy gave him some stock tips. He figured that when the shoeshine boys have tips, the market is too popular for its own good."
A theory also advanced by Bernard Baruch, another vested interest who described the scene before the big Crash: "Taxi drivers told you what to buy. The shoeshine boy could give you a summary of the day's financial news as he worked with rag and polish. An old beggar who regularly patrolled the street in front of my office now gave me tips and, I suppose, spent the money I and others gave him in the market. My cook had a brokerage account and followed the ticker closely. Her paper profits were quickly blown away in the gale of 1929."
Bitcoin's other strength - besides secrecy & state-free independence - is scarcity. Which is caused by power-sapping mining as opposed to fiat paper printing. Most people think the heavy power consumption is a problem 8) I think Elon Musk is Satoshi Nakamoto. He lies about it.
QuoteJoe Kennedy is the father of former president John F. Kennedy.
Joe made most of his money in the stock market. He traded stocks in the roaring 20s when there was little regulation and "anything goes" attitude surrounding all of Wall Street.
Joe famously avoided the Great Depression, and stock market crash of 1929. He sold his entire portfolio days before the crash. But how did he do it? This one anecdote explains it all:
"Joe Kennedy exited the stock market in timely fashion after a shoeshine boy gave him some stock tips. He figured that when the shoeshine boys have tips, the market is too popular for its own good."
A theory also advanced by Bernard Baruch, another vested interest who described the scene before the big Crash: "Taxi drivers told you what to buy. The shoeshine boy could give you a summary of the day's financial news as he worked with rag and polish. An old beggar who regularly patrolled the street in front of my office now gave me tips and, I suppose, spent the money I and others gave him in the market. My cook had a brokerage account and followed the ticker closely. Her paper profits were quickly blown away in the gale of 1929."
Distinction:
-The Bitcoin bubble is bursting/will burst because of speculation. This is quite separate from Bitcoin itself. Bitcoin is being treated as a commodity instead of a medium. Because of this, the volatility dissuades its acceptance as an exchange. I can bet even drug dealers are facing a nightmare.
-Once the speculators get burnt and move on, it will take some time for trading and merchandising - of actual goods and services - to pick up. Unfortunately you cannot keep human behavior even out of the anonymous market. The currency has to be fairly non-volatile for confidence to grow.
Realize cryptocurrency is a real advancement almost like paper money during barter trade. The money markets did not die off after 1929, did they? The upside beats the downside and improvements will come along the way.
Unfortunately, from where I stand, BTC is and can never become a currency like the KES or USD. The backbone, the blockchain, is not laid out for that. Too slow and handles very few transactions compared to, say, VISA.
Satoshi has made me rich God bless him.http://www.nipate.org/index.php?topic=6172.msg49233#msg49233
It is folly to think that Bitcoin will ever be allowed to supplant central-bank-issued money. It is one thing for governments to allow small anonymous transactions with virtual currencies; indeed, this would be desirable. But it is an entirely different matter for governments to allow large-scale anonymous payments, which would make it extremely difficult to collect taxes or counter criminal activity.https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/bitcoin-long-term-price-collapse-by-kenneth-rogoff-2017-10
Finally, it is hard to see what would stop central banks from creating their own digital currencies and using regulation to tilt the playing field until they win. The long history of currency tells us that what the private sector innovates, the state eventually regulates and appropriates.https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/bitcoin-long-term-price-collapse-by-kenneth-rogoff-2017-10
Another reason is general acceptance. Which are people more likely to accept: government-backed money of some fuzzy, "decentralized" electronic stuff? Robina says that the speculators are the problem and the whole point is "for trading and merchandising - of actual goods and services". But how many people or businesses are actually dealing in bitcoins without a reference to the "inferior currencies" (e.g. KES and USD)?
Bitcoin is a horrible currency.
Currencies have three jobs: 1) Being a Means of Exchange, 2) Storing Value, and 3) Being a unit of account. Bitcoin doesn't do any one of them better than other currencies.
The Unit of Account concept is simple. If you have to look up how many bitcoins are required to buy a pizza or convert it in your head to dollars then it's not a unit of account. In fact, the value of a bitcoin is never talked about in relation to goods and services, it's always in terms of dollars or another currency. The US is the Unit of Account in this sense, so Bitcoin hasn't yet developed this use.
The next use is as a Store of Value. This is the one that a lot of people hang their hats on, because the technology itself puts a cap on how many bitcoins can exist and therefore inflation is difficult to accomplish... only that's not really right. In order for something to be a useful Store of Value then the price of it has to be at least a little predictable. You know so that I can pay you today for a hamburger on Tuesday. Business depends upon paying when you have money to get what you need when you need it (usually when you don't have money). If the value of the currency varies wildly over a short period of time then these deals fall apart as one person or the other is invariably screwed by overpaying or underpaying as the value of the unit of exchange is about as constant as a drunk stumbling home from the bar. On November 7th a Bitcoin was worth something like $6,973 on the 12th it was worth $5,845 and on the 17th it was worth $7,843. Good luck trying to figure out the future value of the currency or trying to figure out how much you can spend now and still cover groceries next week.
People aren't buying Bitcoin to store value, they're buying to speculate. Think about it, if you sold bitcoin on the 7th, bought that same bitcoin back on the 12th and then sold it again on the 17th then you would have made money. THAT action is a major driving force in the value of the currency, and that is also a problem.
That brings us to the final function of a currency and the one that the Bitcoin has made the most headway, as a medium of exchange. Bitcoins are used to buy and sell goods. It is often used as an alternative method of converting currencies to the big banks that tend to charge fees to change currencies. It's also used in a variety of transactions that require some degree of secrecy. These are good uses.
So, one of the reasons why Bitcoin is a problem is because there are two uses. The first are the standard currency uses that will keep Bitcoin going as long as it is useful for those purposes. The second is the speculative bubble, people who buy a coin for the purpose of selling it at a later date to make a profit (as opposed to a purchase). It's really hard to separate the two because often the people who make the trades themselves don't know.
But, as a general rule, look for a crash whenever the value of the Bitcoin rises rapidly without a corresponding increase in adoption of velocity of transaction.
Steam no longer accepting bitcoin due to ‘high fees and volatility’
(https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/6/16743220/valve-steam-bitcoin-game-store-payment-method-crypto-volatility)
Steam is no longer accepting bitcoin as a payment method, game company and distributor Valve announced today. The company is attributing its decision to cryptocurrency’s “high fees and volatility.” In a blog post, Valve explained that bitcoin transaction fees have gone up to nearly $20 per transaction last week, “compared to roughly $0.20 when we initially enabled Bitcoin.” Those fees then have to be shouldered by gamers making purchases on Steam, and the total cost to consumers could be even higher if the value of bitcoin dips in the meantime.
Even if the value of bitcoin were to go up while the user completes the transaction, and Steam has to refund the difference to the user, the transaction fee must be paid by the user again for the refund. “This year, we’ve seen increasing number of customers get into this state,” the post states. There’s even the scenario, Valve explains, that as the user or Steam tries to cover the difference in value, the value of bitcoin then changes again, causing more problems.
Steam says it could reconsider this decision to remove bitcoin as a payment option in the future, if the currency finds more stability, but for now it’s just working with any customers who are still dealing with underpayments or transaction fees. Just last week, the value of bitcoin skyrocketed past $10,000, marking a 933 percent increase since January of this year. Other governments in China, South Korea, Russia, and elsewhere around the world have taken a more stern look at cryptocurrency and implemented regulations or outright bans.
QuoteFinally, it is hard to see what would stop central banks from creating their own digital currencies and using regulation to tilt the playing field until they win. The long history of currency tells us that what the private sector innovates, the state eventually regulates and appropriates.https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/bitcoin-long-term-price-collapse-by-kenneth-rogoff-2017-10
One of things that has recently excited Bitcoin types is Japan's new regulations on virtual currencies. As far as I can tell, much of the excitement is misplaced.
Another reason is general acceptance. Which are people more likely to accept: government-backed money of some fuzzy, "decentralized" electronic stuff? Robina says that the speculators are the problem and the whole point is "for trading and merchandising - of actual goods and services". But how many people or businesses are actually dealing in bitcoins without a reference to the "inferior currencies" (e.g. KES and USD)?
Exactly.
Read this a couple of days ago in Reddit:QuoteBitcoin is a horrible currency.
Currencies have three jobs: 1) Being a Means of Exchange, 2) Storing Value, and 3) Being a unit of account. Bitcoin doesn't do any one of them better than other currencies.
The Unit of Account concept is simple. If you have to look up how many bitcoins are required to buy a pizza or convert it in your head to dollars then it's not a unit of account. In fact, the value of a bitcoin is never talked about in relation to goods and services, it's always in terms of dollars or another currency. The US is the Unit of Account in this sense, so Bitcoin hasn't yet developed this use.
The next use is as a Store of Value. This is the one that a lot of people hang their hats on, because the technology itself puts a cap on how many bitcoins can exist and therefore inflation is difficult to accomplish... only that's not really right. In order for something to be a useful Store of Value then the price of it has to be at least a little predictable. You know so that I can pay you today for a hamburger on Tuesday. Business depends upon paying when you have money to get what you need when you need it (usually when you don't have money). If the value of the currency varies wildly over a short period of time then these deals fall apart as one person or the other is invariably screwed by overpaying or underpaying as the value of the unit of exchange is about as constant as a drunk stumbling home from the bar. On November 7th a Bitcoin was worth something like $6,973 on the 12th it was worth $5,845 and on the 17th it was worth $7,843. Good luck trying to figure out the future value of the currency or trying to figure out how much you can spend now and still cover groceries next week.
People aren't buying Bitcoin to store value, they're buying to speculate. Think about it, if you sold bitcoin on the 7th, bought that same bitcoin back on the 12th and then sold it again on the 17th then you would have made money. THAT action is a major driving force in the value of the currency, and that is also a problem.
That brings us to the final function of a currency and the one that the Bitcoin has made the most headway, as a medium of exchange. Bitcoins are used to buy and sell goods. It is often used as an alternative method of converting currencies to the big banks that tend to charge fees to change currencies. It's also used in a variety of transactions that require some degree of secrecy. These are good uses.
So, one of the reasons why Bitcoin is a problem is because there are two uses. The first are the standard currency uses that will keep Bitcoin going as long as it is useful for those purposes. The second is the speculative bubble, people who buy a coin for the purpose of selling it at a later date to make a profit (as opposed to a purchase). It's really hard to separate the two because often the people who make the trades themselves don't know.
But, as a general rule, look for a crash whenever the value of the Bitcoin rises rapidly without a corresponding increase in adoption of velocity of transaction.
This news just in:QuoteSteam no longer accepting bitcoin due to ‘high fees and volatility’
(https://www.theverge.com/2017/12/6/16743220/valve-steam-bitcoin-game-store-payment-method-crypto-volatility)
Steam is no longer accepting bitcoin as a payment method, game company and distributor Valve announced today. The company is attributing its decision to cryptocurrency’s “high fees and volatility.” In a blog post, Valve explained that bitcoin transaction fees have gone up to nearly $20 per transaction last week, “compared to roughly $0.20 when we initially enabled Bitcoin.” Those fees then have to be shouldered by gamers making purchases on Steam, and the total cost to consumers could be even higher if the value of bitcoin dips in the meantime.
Even if the value of bitcoin were to go up while the user completes the transaction, and Steam has to refund the difference to the user, the transaction fee must be paid by the user again for the refund. “This year, we’ve seen increasing number of customers get into this state,” the post states. There’s even the scenario, Valve explains, that as the user or Steam tries to cover the difference in value, the value of bitcoin then changes again, causing more problems.
Steam says it could reconsider this decision to remove bitcoin as a payment option in the future, if the currency finds more stability, but for now it’s just working with any customers who are still dealing with underpayments or transaction fees. Just last week, the value of bitcoin skyrocketed past $10,000, marking a 933 percent increase since January of this year. Other governments in China, South Korea, Russia, and elsewhere around the world have taken a more stern look at cryptocurrency and implemented regulations or outright bans.
Robina, don't get me wrong; I'm quite satisfied with what I've so far gained with BTC (paper value so far) and the blockchain for me is one of the most important concepts of software I've ever seen. Unfortunately, as can seen above, at the moment BTC is absolutely useless as a currency.QuoteFinally, it is hard to see what would stop central banks from creating their own digital currencies and using regulation to tilt the playing field until they win. The long history of currency tells us that what the private sector innovates, the state eventually regulates and appropriates.https://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/bitcoin-long-term-price-collapse-by-kenneth-rogoff-2017-10
One of things that has recently excited Bitcoin types is Japan's new regulations on virtual currencies. As far as I can tell, much of the excitement is misplaced.
The banks are working on their own blockchain currency. Check out Ripple (https://www.forbes.com/sites/tomgroenfeldt/2017/11/01/leading-banks-in-using-ripple-blockchain-value-its-speed/#349679183930). Will it work? Who knows.
13.00 USD in 2012.How much was it when you bought?Bitcoin is here to stay. These are teething problems caused by greed. Currency is for transacting, trading and saving - not a commodity, stock or investment like greedy speculators are doing with cryptos. The blockchain came up after 2007-09 financial crisis when folks lost faith in the Fed. Bitcoin is a true market currency because there is no Fed to stabilize it - totally depends on supply and demand. So I don't see folks discarding cyrptos - in fact there are people buying Bitcoins and Ethereums big right now during this fake meltdown. Bitcoin saved wikileaks and other pariahs who work under water. The secrecy and independence are unprecedented. Growing acceptance by states and business will make it stable with time.
In short I will not sell my BTC.
Whoa Robina!!
Its heading to $15K..
I doubt it, the one to watch is IOTA, no fees, a different take on blockchain. Bitcoin won't replace currency, it will be more like gold a store of value. I'm betting on vergecoin to deliver everything bitcoin hasn't.
I doubt it, the one to watch is IOTA, no fees, a different take on blockchain. Bitcoin won't replace currency, it will be more like gold a store of value. I'm betting on vergecoin to deliver everything bitcoin hasn't.
I'd mentioned IOTA already above as a good investment. Vergecoin isn't bad either, a rock-solid team behind it and doesn't have scaling issues.
Plain ponzi. I won't engage in it.
I will be some $5K richer in Jan and I intend to go short on BTCUSD with all of it. That’s the most I can afford to burn on BTC,and not cry when I lose my shirt.
The BTC futures being introduced nobody knows HOW they will affect prices but one sure thing is, they add ability to speculate and make money on the way down as opposed to presently where you can only make money on your way up.
Moon Ki,
The idea of government run crypto is not sexy at all. Nobody will trust the authorities with privacy,and privacy is a key driver,at least initially , of BTC allure. Government cryptos will be released but I doubt they can match or even pretend to compete with BTC. But it’s possible after the ponzi comes down,and hubris melt, we wil soberly consider cryptos as a medium of exchange as opposed to commodity
Robina,
Please bail out and get me my iPhone X. Asante
Moon Ki,
The idea of government run crypto is not sexy at all. Nobody will trust the authorities with privacy,and privacy is a key driver,at least initially , of BTC allure. Government cryptos will be released but I doubt they can match or even pretend to compete with BTC. But it’s possible after the ponzi comes down,and hubris melt, we wil soberly consider cryptos as a medium of exchange as opposed to commodity.
Government crypto is literal voodoo. Anonymity & decentralized are the key features. Trust MOON Ki to bet on those.
I wonder if MOON Ki sees any point of an option to the status quo. So he needs a thesis to convince him. Don't worry when cars showed up some insisted we must continue riding horses :D
For starters the various financial crises - Asia in the 90s, entire developed world 2007-09. Poor people in places like Zim are stuck with morons like Bob & Grace to manage their wealth and line up outside banks with gunias to carry useless cash. These are failures of the traditional banking system. Decentralization and anonymity disrupt this system.
No system improves without a challenge. Paypal forced the bankers to digitize in the early 2000s. At first they attacked Paypal viciously before they copy-pasted the model. Paypal's problem was going proprietary - which the cryptocurrency solves by blockchain free patent. There are simply too many hackers, entrepreneurs, investors, etc for the establishment to beat. Any banker with a brain should invest in a crypto-exchange or wallet subsidiary.
1. AnonymityMoon Ki,
The idea of government run crypto is not sexy at all. Nobody will trust the authorities with privacy,and privacy is a key driver,at least initially , of BTC allure. Government cryptos will be released but I doubt they can match or even pretend to compete with BTC. But it’s possible after the ponzi comes down,and hubris melt, we wil soberly consider cryptos as a medium of exchange as opposed to commodity.
I don't quite get that. I can see how some geeks and anti-social types might look at the sexy element, but I never see money solely in such terms ... the sexiness of money. I'd much rather focus on all the sexy things one can get with real money, including the sexiness of all sorts of real sex.
Beyond real or virtual sexiness, I have some opinions on all this; but let me not jump the gun, given that I do not know your "starting point". So, before I write a full response to that, I have a couple of questions:
- Do you really mean "privacy", or do you mean "anonymity"?
- What is it about bitcoin that you think any person or organization might want to match or even pretend to match?
While I await your answers, I'll give you a broad, general opinion: bitcoin has never really been a "medium of exchange as opposed to commodity"; there have never real prospects that it might ever be; and there are no prospects that it will ever be.
What is happening with bitcoin right now is actually the best that ever could happen: All sorts of greedy types jumping in, hoping (if they understand what is going on) that they will unload on other suckers before the gravy-train crashes. I too have considered jumping in for the "free and easy money". But this lemming rush? Yes, some people will get rich, but how many will end up crying?
(By the way, I saw your note on shorting bitcoin, and I too thought it might be an opportunity to clean up. But it looks like current frenzy will go on for a while and with increasing delays on transactions. Makes things very tricky.)
1. Anonymity
2. Using cryptos as a legal tender...medium of exchange that’s what some central banks are musing
About shorting, I doubt it’ll edge higher, maybe $18K at most.
The Japanese government recognized bitcoin as legal tender in April and required cryptocurrency exchange operators to register with it.*** Strictly, the article is incorrect: The Japanese laws have admitted the cryptocurrencies as "legal methods of payment", not as "legal tender". Nevertheless, my point is that any "legality" comes from the government.
The financial watchdog has laid out various requirements, such as building a strong computer system, segregation of customer accounts and checking the identity of customers, a key issue given concerns cryptocurrency could be used for money-laundering.
Moonki,
I will make time later today and respond to your detailed post.
Asante and great week ahead
How liquid is bitcoin? If today I had 1B dollars worth of it - can I liquidate it to cash? Or it just like I suspect some make-belief nonsense where everyone is punting hoping to win and leave someone else without his shirt.
Anyone watching Litecoin (LTC)?
Moonki,
I will make time later today and respond to your detailed post.
Asante and great week ahead
One more for those who believe in "anonymity" and "government out!": a US federal judge has decided that if it looks like your US transactions in bitcoin might be worth taxing, then the government has a right to know who you are: http://fortune.com/2017/11/29/irs-coinbase/
Court order: https://www.scribd.com/document/365893210/US-v-Coinbase-order#fullscreen&from_embed
(A key point in the order are the IRS requests that have been denied. The denial is only "at this stage", and it seems apparent that the IRS can repeat the same intrusive requests once it has gone through the list of possible mischief-makers and narrowed it down.)
And there's an amusing side-note there: the IRS gets its initial information from Chainalysis, a bunch of electronic sleuths who look at the bitcoin blockchain, which is public. So, the very thing that facilitates the "decentralized, government-free money" is a handy tool for getting information on suspicious people!
In yet other news, hackers again ignore the "crypto" in "cryptocurrency" and make off with plenty of good stuff: http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-42275523
This would take a couple of days due to heavy trading by speculators. This is pure logistical - imagine 100m folks suddenly trading the shilling. At $20 fees. The free bitcoins would be bought immediately. A few days ago there were panic sales - at 12k usd. Now it's at 17k usd.
People are trading heavy all the time and overloading the network. They get real cash. It's speculation not make-believe.How liquid is bitcoin? If today I had 1B dollars worth of it - can I liquidate it to cash? Or it just like I suspect some make-belief nonsense where everyone is punting hoping to win and leave someone else without his shirt.
Anyone watching Litecoin (LTC)?
Yes yes yes... The moonshot is finally here.
Ok, sorry to spoil the party, but I need to reign in the excitement a bit...
— Charlie Lee Ⓜ️🕸️ (@SatoshiLite) December 11, 2017
Buying LTC is extremely risky. I expect us to have a multi-year bear market like the one we just had where LTC dropped 90% in value ($48 to $4). So if you can't handle LTC dropping to $20, don't buy! đź€
These moves now expose the underbelly of bitcoin and other pritected-by-public-blockchain crypto. This is a good thing for truly private coins.
These moves now expose the underbelly of bitcoin and other pritected-by-public-blockchain crypto. This is a good thing for truly private coins.
And the "truly private coins" would be good for?
Anyone watching Litecoin (LTC)?
Yes yes yes... The moonshot is finally here.
Yeah, it's great but don't get too excited (I know it's hard not to :D). This is what the developer of Litecoin had to say:Ok, sorry to spoil the party, but I need to reign in the excitement a bit...
— Charlie Lee Ⓜ️🕸️ (@SatoshiLite) December 11, 2017
Buying LTC is extremely risky. I expect us to have a multi-year bear market like the one we just had where LTC dropped 90% in value ($48 to $4). So if you can't handle LTC dropping to $20, don't buy! đź€
Privacy from the money grabbing governments. I must say it feels quite good engaging in trade beyond the hands of her majesty's revenue and customs.
Privacy from the money grabbing governments. I must say it feels quite good engaging in trade beyond the hands of her majesty's revenue and customs.
Most crime probably feels good at the time, but it is astonishing to see such a "cheerful" public admission. I urge veritas to look into your IP address and then follow the directions here: https://www.gov.uk/report-an-unregistered-trader-or-business
Still, to your credit, you are not among those who believe in "we'll use the funny moneies to pay for goods and services". Hardly anyone uses them for that, for two good reasons: (a) hardly anybody takes them for that, and (b) "regular monies" are still way ahead and will remain way ahead government-back "virtual currencies" replace them in the "way ahead". Bitcoin is the most prominent of the funny monies. Has been around for nearly a decade. And people can do what with it in practice? (Other than supporting criminal activities.)
Even the most die-hard supporters of, say, bitcoin, have just been sitting on their "coins", and the basic thing driving most cryptocurencies is the belief that at some point one will be able to sell, at much higher prices, to some suckers.
Oh, this just in on another "anonymous" user of bitcoin: https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/long-island-woman-indicted-bank-fraud-and-money-laundering-support-terrorists
Bitcoin is an absolute failure as a common use currency and will never become one.
What's more interesting is the technology behind it, the blockchain, but most people aren't interested in that at all.
Greed is what's driving the market now, with quite a few early adopters of bitcoin bailing out.
Every failure you cite of crypto - devaluation, fraud, etc - can be countered with many more failures of fiat currency. There are numerous bank heists, corruption cases and devaluations worldwide involving fiat currency. Terrorism and corruption have existed for centuries and have been funded by fiat currency. You cite one Bitcoin terrorist... who funded all the others? Should we abandon the dollar or the euro for that? These crimes are not currency problems. Try banning greed and faith or religion first.
Bitcoin is legal in a significant number of countries - OECD, Latin America, Asia, Africa, name it.
There are many and counting legal merchants & retailers who accept bitcoin and other cryptos in their trade. Including giants Microsoft, Zynga, Expedia, Overstock, Virgin Galactic. http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-8-surprising-places-where-you-can-use-2017-10?IR=T/#virgin-galactic-3 (http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-8-surprising-places-where-you-can-use-2017-10?IR=T/#virgin-galactic-3)
Online Xmas gift shops I bet are milking it big
Every failure you cite of crypto - devaluation, fraud, etc - can be countered with many more failures of fiat currency. There are numerous bank heists, corruption cases and devaluations worldwide involving fiat currency. Terrorism and corruption have existed for centuries and have been funded by fiat currency. You cite one Bitcoin terrorist... who funded all the others? Should we abandon the dollar or the euro for that? These crimes are not currency problems. Try banning greed and faith or religion first.
Recently Uncle Sam's global impunity and corruption have been exposed by Wikileaks whose survival is ensured by cryptocurrency. Uncle Sam froze all other funding channels. That's Uncle Sam's real beef - loss of control. However he's not as intransigent because he sees some value - it's a wait and see attitude at least according to Janet Yelen. Bitcoin is legal in a significant number of countries - OECD, Latin America, Asia, Africa, name it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_territory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legality_of_bitcoin_by_country_or_territory) Not everyone buys into the doom theory.
There are many and counting legal merchants & retailers who accept bitcoin and other cryptos in their trade. Including giants Microsoft, Zynga, Expedia, Overstock, Virgin Galactic. http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-8-surprising-places-where-you-can-use-2017-10?IR=T/#virgin-galactic-3 (http://www.businessinsider.com/bitcoin-price-8-surprising-places-where-you-can-use-2017-10?IR=T/#virgin-galactic-3) Online Xmas gift shops I bet are milking it big.
Acceptance as legal tender is the proper measure of success for a currency. And this will be driven by stability. Volatility is a teething problem. Just like the brand new internet some speculators will reap as others lose - the sooner the bubble bursts the better.
MOON Ki there is not enough detail on the New York woman to finger crypto anonymity as the leak in her evil scheme. The multiple fraud, footprint on the jihad web, travel plans - these are sufficient wind for the anti-terror radar. Once captured her gadgets can reveal her transactions.
This applies to drug dealers and other criminals. Anonymity cannot make up for slack or stupidity.
The European Parliament and the European Council agreed to a new set of rules on Friday that target exchange platforms for bitcoin and other virtual currencies.http://www.dw.com/en/bitcoin-eu-approves-cryptocurrency-clampdown-to-combat-terrorism-financing/a-41820170
The new measures would require platforms that previously allowed users to remain anonymous to identify them.
- Requires platforms that transfer bitcoin and "wallet" providers that hold cryptocurrencies for clients to identify users.
- Limits use of pre-paid payment cards.
- Raises transparency requirements for company and trust owners.
- Allows national investigators more access to information, including national bank account registers.
- Grants access to data on the beneficiaries of trusts to "persons who can demonstrate a legitimate interest"
Europe's Justice Commissioner Vera Jourova hailed the new rules, saying: "Today's agreement will bring more transparency to improve the prevention of money laundering and to cut off terrorist financing."
Wikileaks whose survival is ensured by cryptocurrency.
However he's not as intransigent because he sees some value - it's a wait and see attitude at least according to Janet Yelen.
"I really want to caution, this is not something the Federal Reserve is seriously considering at this stage. While we're looking at research on this topic, there are, I think to my mind, limited benefits from introducing it, a limited need for it and some substantial concerns."
Cryptos are
1. Decentralized - this is the feature that saves Wikileaks from the totalitarian Uncle Sam. It's not illegal to fund them, just impossible to use fiat currency. Also the Fed cannot issue extra coins. This freedom from the state and the central bank is a big deal and is the real intent of crypto after the 07-09 financial crisis.
2. Partially anonymous but not private - this implies you must mind your steps if your intents are unlawful. Criminals must use unregistered computers, mask IPs, avoid exchanges, switch wallets, etc to remain anonymous. Safer than fiat but not foolproof.
In real commerce, as a legal tender, neither of the two features is applicable especially in B2B and B2C transactions. P2P exchanges however will thrive in crypto.
Critics of cryptocurrencies do not understand cryptocurrencies are an economic incentive for participants to secure the integrity of an immutable distributed ledger.https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQ1augcW0AEadBn.jpg
“Bitcoin’s innovation is the use of economics to ensure security” he said, adding that the price we see today represents investors pricing in future expectations of the utility of blockchains like smart contracts and decentralized applications.
One for Empedocles: I assume you are in Nairobi ... what do serious people think of this sort of stuff?
From the Chairman of the Blockchain Association of Kenya at their Big Event:QuoteCritics of cryptocurrencies do not understand cryptocurrencies are an economic incentive for participants to secure the integrity of an immutable distributed ledger.https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQ1augcW0AEadBn.jpg
“Bitcoin’s innovation is the use of economics to ensure security” he said, adding that the price we see today represents investors pricing in future expectations of the utility of blockchains like smart contracts and decentralized applications.
Bizarre but entertaining stuff, including a session of "Warembo in Bitcoin Biashara".
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQ1augcW0AEadBn.jpg)
Looks like they cleaned up at this event---thousands of shillings per head---and are planning to do repeats. Mining Kenyan pockets is undoubtedly easier ...
I took a look at their webpage. Most, if not all of the links, lead to the same page, which hasn't been checked for contradictions and misinformation.
Wikileak activists are well known and are not hiding behind anonymity. They don't need it. It is not illegal to fund or support Wikileaks.
Bitcoin is a secure and anonymous digital currency. Bitcoins cannot be easily tracked back to you.https://shop.wikileaks.org/donate
This is why the US has to resort to trumped up rape charges against Mr Assange. They cannot charge him with treason because he will plead the 1st - he is a journalist - and would get asylum in half the world. The independence of crypto is all Wikileaks needs and it works perfectly.
Criminality is abuse of crypto and is not the essence. It is about the state. If you are a Russian in the west and wish to fund anti-Putin activists in Moscow, you are better off anonymous. It's literally a life and death issue yet you are not a criminal. You may find polonium in your tea :o The same can be said of the Chinese, the Saudis and many other draconian regimes. Even in Kenya you may want to support NASA anonymously - without getting into someones' bad books 8)
Decentralization and anonymity are a very strong combination. The state cannot shut down crypto - unlike Visa or Paypal - and with some caution you can maintain your anonymity.
“There is evidently a risk of speculation. We need to consider and examine this and see how (...) with all the other G20 members we can regulate bitcoin.”
— Aaron van Wirdum (@AaronvanW) December 18, 2017
- French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire https://t.co/V30zJAagRI
Crypto to Take Center Stage at G20 – “Need to See How We Can Regulate Bitcoin (https://news.bitcoin.com/crypto-to-take-center-stage-at-g20-need-to-see-how-we-can-regulate-bitcoin/)”
French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire announced on Sunday December 17th that the next Group of 20 (G20) meeting would include discussion about how to regulate the world’s most popular cryptocurrency, bitcoin. The digital asset hasn’t ceased in making news all year, and European politicians appear more concerned in direct proportion to its price increase, as shown by the EU legislative body urging strict compliance laws upon coin exchanges this week. The G20 establishing regulatory frameworks, however, would spread across the world and have enormous impact.
Speaking to La Chaîne Info (LCI), French Finance Minister Bruno Le Maire declared: “I am going to propose to the next G20 president, Argentina, that at the G20 summit in April we have a discussion all together on the question of bitcoin.”
The G20 includes central bankers and leaders from 19 countries and the European Union, spanning the entire globe: Argentina, Australia, Brazil, Canada, China, France, Germany, India, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Mexico, Russian Federation, Saudi Arabia, South Africa, South Korea, Turkey, United Kingdom, and the United States.
“There is evidently a risk of speculation,” Mr. Le Maire continued. “We need to consider and examine this and see how…with all the other G20 members we can regulate bitcoin.”
That bitcoin would make it into the agenda is nothing short of jaw-dropping. G20 nations soak up more than eighty cents on every economic dollar around the world in terms of trade and productivity.
Mr. Le Maire was wrapping his session at the One Planet Summit in Boulogne-Billancourt this week. The week prior, the Finance Minister seemed to welcome bitcoin and its undergirding technology, blockchain. “The use of this new technology will allow fintech firms and other financial actors to develop new ways of trading securities that are faster, cheaper, more transparent and safer,” he said, referencing new rules to allow for trading unlisted securities. These would add “another asset for Paris’ attractiveness as a financial center” he was quoted as saying.
A Delicate Tango
Indeed the Macron government has largely been viewed as neoliberal, reordering France’s clunky and notorious bureaucracies toward less regulation.
The first scheduled calendar meetings at the Argentina G20 in April are of its Development Working Group in Buenos Aires, April 10th, 2018. Priorities announced for the gathering include, “the future of work and what this means for education, infrastructure for development, and a sustainable food future,” its website reads.
In anticipation of the meetings, Argentine President Mauricio Macri explained, “Technology is quickening productivity at an unprecedented rate, which presents both opportunities and challenges. We want to ensure that adopting technological advances does not lead to economic exclusion or other negative side effects.”
Bitcoin investor Tim Draper held a meeting with President Macri and an advisor in late November of this year. By all accounts, Mr. Macri seemed at least receptive to the idea of cryptocurrencies. That same month, the country’s Rofex exchange announced it would be offering bitcoin futures.
Asking your friends if they made anonymous purchases or transactions is an oxymoron.
Cypto is currency with a niche - designed to actually solve a problem - not just another channel or sovereign symbol. Crypto is not here to supplant the fiat, just an option for those in need of it. I see no reason for its demise anymore than the constantly devalued shilling.
It's funny to read about the crypto dollar. Imagine that - freedom from the state by the state. The only development now is more solutions to safeguard and tighten the anonymity.
Doom prophecy is a necessary stage in most great inventions.
Asking your friends if they made anonymous purchases or transactions is an oxymoron.
Cypto is currency with a niche - designed to actually solve a problem - not just another channel or sovereign symbol. Crypto is not here to supplant the fiat, just an option for those in need of it. I see no reason for its demise anymore than the constantly devalued shilling.
freedom from the state and the central bank is a big deal and is the real intent of crypto after the 07-09 financial crisis
And how exactly bitcoin etc. has actually-helped/would-help with that? If a similar financial crisis were to occur today, how would bitcoin be different from any other speculative asset that one might have?
There are many and counting legal merchants & retailers who accept bitcoin and other cryptos in their trade.
It's funny to read about the crypto dollar. Imagine that - freedom from the state by the state. The only development now is more solutions to safeguard and tighten the anonymity.
A cryptocurrency (or crypto currency) is a digital asset designed to work as a medium of exchange that uses cryptography to secure its transactions, to control the creation of additional units, and to verify the transfer of assets.[1][2][3]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptocurrency
Privacy from the money grabbing governments. I must say it feels quite good engaging in trade beyond the hands of her majesty's revenue and customs.
Most crime probably feels good at the time, but it is astonishing to see such a "cheerful" public admission. I urge veritas to look into your IP address and then follow the directions here: https://www.gov.uk/report-an-unregistered-trader-or-business
Still, to your credit, you are not among those who believe in "we'll use the funny moneies to pay for goods and services". Hardly anyone uses them for that, for two good reasons: (a) hardly anybody takes them for that, and (b) "regular monies" are still way ahead and will remain way ahead government-back "virtual currencies" replace them in the "way ahead". Bitcoin is the most prominent of the funny monies. Has been around for nearly a decade. And people can do what with it in practice? (Other than supporting criminal activities.)
Even the most die-hard supporters of, say, bitcoin, have just been sitting on their "coins", and the basic thing driving most cryptocurencies is the belief that at some point one will be able to sell, at much higher prices, to some suckers.
Oh, this just in on another "anonymous" user of bitcoin: https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/long-island-woman-indicted-bank-fraud-and-money-laundering-support-terrorists
Asking your friends if they made anonymous purchases or transactions is an oxymoron.
Cypto is currency with a niche - designed to actually solve a problem - not just another channel or sovereign symbol. Crypto is not here to supplant the fiat, just an option for those in need of it. I see no reason for its demise anymore than the constantly devalued shilling.
It's funny to read about the crypto dollar. Imagine that - freedom from the state by the state. The only development now is more solutions to safeguard and tighten the anonymity.
Doom prophecy is a necessary stage in most great inventions.
Only time will tell.
As for me buying now is like buying in 2006 all over again.
Coinbase unleashed a couple of interesting days in the crypto market.I predict a stabilized price of around $7K. Those who bought at $20K are big losers.
Coinbase unleashed a couple of interesting days in the crypto market.I predict a stabilized price of around $7K. Those who bought at $20K are big losers.
Everyone says the blockchain, the technology underpinning cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin, is going to change EVERYTHING. And yet, after years of tireless effort and billions of dollars invested, nobody has actually come up with a use for the blockchain—besides currency speculation and illegal transactions.
Each purported use case?—?from payments to legal documents, from escrow to voting systems—amounts to a set of contortions to add a distributed, encrypted, anonymous ledger where none was needed. What if there isn’t actually any use for a distributed ledger at all? What if, ten years after it was invented, the reason nobody has adopted a distributed ledger at scale is because nobody wants it?.....,
QuoteEveryone says the blockchain, the technology underpinning cryptocurrencies such as bitcoin, is going to change EVERYTHING. And yet, after years of tireless effort and billions of dollars invested, nobody has actually come up with a use for the blockchain—besides currency speculation and illegal transactions.
Each purported use case?—?from payments to legal documents, from escrow to voting systems—amounts to a set of contortions to add a distributed, encrypted, anonymous ledger where none was needed. What if there isn’t actually any use for a distributed ledger at all? What if, ten years after it was invented, the reason nobody has adopted a distributed ledger at scale is because nobody wants it?.....,
https://hackernoon.com/ten-years-in-nobody-has-come-up-with-a-use-case-for-blockchain-ee98c180100
*All* crypto communities, ethereum included, should heed these words of warning. Need to differentiate between getting hundreds of billions of dollars of digital paper wealth sloshing around and actually achieving something meaningful for society. https://t.co/aNpEnBNGsA
— vitalik.eth (@VitalikButerin) December 27, 2017
If all that we accomplish is lambo memes and immature puns about "sharting", then I WILL leave.
— vitalik.eth (@VitalikButerin) December 27, 2017
Though I still have a lot of hope that the community can steer in the right direction.