Nipate
Forum => Kenya Discussion => Topic started by: vooke on October 18, 2017, 02:09:01 PM
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Negros wish me resigning but I’m not
All players are yellow carded
All players step back else elections won’t be free and fair
I will call both sides and mediate
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Mediate what? Uhuru need to sign that law and Nkatha need to complete the task ahead. Mediate with a week to election?
Negros wish me resigning but I’m not
All players are yellow carded
All players step back else elections won’t be free and fair
I will call both sides and mediate
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It's obvious reading his statement that he is looking for an exit strategy. Uhuru should assent the law and prepare for an eventuality where Chebukati is going to resign.
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Uhuru may be next.
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Then Ruto takes over :).
Otherwise the way I see
1) Hold elections with 4 remaining commissioner - Nkatha as the Vice Chairperson should take over as Presidential RO.
2) Let those who want to vote - vote - and those who want to disrupt election - be met with reasonable force.
3) Uhuru is declared winner.
4) Those NOT satisfied can go to Supreme Court.
5) Supreme court can decide to annul or correct their initial mess.
6) Uhuru get sworn and he comples his five year term
Where does Chebukati get the power to "mediate" anything - who gave him the authority if he cannot even convince 4 commissioner - what make him think he can get Uhuru and Raila to sit down :).
Uhuru may be next.
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Who gave Uhuru authority?
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Authority to do what?
Who gave Uhuru authority?
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Full speech
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Pundit, Everybody who is anybody has agreed that elections cannot be held on 10/26/2017. Its impossible. Chebukati is saying the same thing when he says he cannot work with Ruto's commission and secretariat. All that is needed now is the principles, Ouru and Raila, (without Ruto and Kalonzo), bury the hatchet, and give their people a chance to negotiate a legal means upon which the elections can be postponed and for how long. It has to be enough time to implement the irreducible minimums that NASA had insisted upon. Holding elections on 10/26/2017 was unattainable on so many fronts that it was silly even to contemplate the wisdom pushing it. It was like trying to ride a race horse with broken legs towards the finish line. Ruto got the message yesterday when he called for the implementation of the irreducible minimums because he knew his game was up by that time.
Authority to do what?
Who gave Uhuru authority?
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How can you have credible elections when voters and potential voters are being killed, JEBC commissioners are resigning and the few remaining are compromised, one main candidate has withdrawn, rival losers have been bought, half the country won't vote and a fringe candidate is threatening to make the sky fall, killer police are openly partisan, EU observers are giddy with expectant bias, and the US is looking the other way?
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Authority to do what?
Who gave Uhuru authority?
When Uhuru realizes authority is from God through the people and not through the gun we can begin talking. By abusing his position to kill Luos he is showing he has lost it. Ruto is staring at his dream being broken like eggs under a bulldozer. More than Uhuru, he should sit up and shape up. Isapite he is cheering Uhuru as he sits on a throne build on Luo skulls.
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He is saying in not so many words that Kenya is incapable of holding credible elections. And you don't need to be a genius to understand it's because the jubilant wants to protect his tyranny of numbers which depend on an opaque process. I want to believe he has not just discovered this fact but rather he is now emboldened to state the same because of current events.
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Negros wish me resigning but I’m not
All players are yellow carded
All players step back else elections won’t be free and fair
I will call both sides and mediate
What "both sides" are these? There are six equal candidates.
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This will be tough for NASA - who may have to petition as "concerned citizens" after boycotting - perhaps they will be included as amicus to Aukot petition.
Then Ruto takes over :).
Otherwise the way I see
1) Hold elections with 4 remaining commissioner - Nkatha as the Vice Chairperson should take over as Presidential RO.
2) Let those who want to vote - vote - and those who want to disrupt election - be met with reasonable force.
3) Uhuru is declared winner.
4) Those NOT satisfied can go to Supreme Court.
5) Supreme court can decide to annul or correct their initial mess.
6) Uhuru get sworn and he comples his five year term
Where does Chebukati get the power to "mediate" anything - who gave him the authority if he cannot even convince 4 commissioner - what make him think he can get Uhuru and Raila to sit down :).
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Exactly.He he is showing his hand.
Negros wish me resigning but I’m not
All players are yellow carded
All players step back else elections won’t be free and fair
I will call both sides and mediate
What "both sides" are these? There are six equal candidates.
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Robina what's so hard to understand about NASA boycotting selections? After Aug 8 Jubilee dared NASA to go to court and it did. Jubilee again dared NASA to boycott and it has. NASA game goes beyond going to court now. Everybody can see Jubilee intends to neuter courts and render them TuMutungaroos where any Njoke Ndugu can change minutes and verdicts.
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Negros wish me resigning but I’m not
All players are yellow carded
All players step back else elections won’t be free and fair
I will call both sides and mediate
What "both sides" are these? There are six equal candidates.
The usual suspects who have the numbers and muscle to bully IEBC
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What "both sides" are these? There are six equal candidates.
Uhuru and Aukot. The only confirmed parcitipants in Chebukati's sham election on the 26th October.
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How can you have credible elections when voters and potential voters are being killed, JEBC commissioners are resigning and the few remaining are compromised, one main candidate has withdrawn, rival losers have been bought, half the country won't vote and a fringe candidate is threatening to make the sky fall, killer police are openly partisan, EU observers are giddy with expectant bias, and the US is looking the other way?
I wonder why. These are the independent voice we can trust - compared to the candidates.
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How can you have credible elections when voters and potential voters are being killed, JEBC commissioners are resigning and the few remaining are compromised, one main candidate has withdrawn, rival losers have been bought, half the country won't vote and a fringe candidate is threatening to make the sky fall, killer police are openly partisan, EU observers are giddy with expectant bias, and the US is looking the other way?
I wonder why. These are the independent voice we can trust - compared to the candidates.
They want "stability". What the African wants comes a distant second.
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Robina what's so hard to understand about NASA boycotting selections? After Aug 8 Jubilee dared NASA to go to court and it did. Jubilee again dared NASA to boycott and it has. NASA game goes beyond going to court now. Everybody can see Jubilee intends to neuter courts and render them TuMutungaroos where any Njoke Ndugu can change minutes and verdicts.
We beat this horse dead sometimes back. Mutunga was appointed by JSC and was cheered by everyone as reformist. He was soon became the devil. Jubilee can shout hoarse about Maraga but his decision stands.
About IEBC - they should implement the changes needed to comply with the court order - Chebukati's matrix should not be bound anyhow by NASA's (or Jubilee's) minimums and conditions. If majority commissioners have overruled Chebukati that is internal to the commission and the worst he can do is quit as chair. A commission is not meant to work by consensus just like parliament or a corporate board. Even the SCORK itself rules by majority.
NASA boycott... as long the elections are upheld by the SCORK if petitioned - that is more useful than NASA's concurrence or concession. We have been told here that the issue is Kalenjin-Gema ping pong :) They must share power with the Luo or get ready for the parliamentary system, federalism, secession - am not clear what comes first :D Well, welcome to democracy.
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Robina, you seem to be really lost in your thought and reason since you decided to abandon your senses and join the "winning team". You simply stopped making sense anymore. Be yourself.
Robina what's so hard to understand about NASA boycotting selections? After Aug 8 Jubilee dared NASA to go to court and it did. Jubilee again dared NASA to boycott and it has. NASA game goes beyond going to court now. Everybody can see Jubilee intends to neuter courts and render them TuMutungaroos where any Njoke Ndugu can change minutes and verdicts.
We beat this horse dead sometimes back. Mutunga was appointed by JSC and was cheered by everyone as reformist. He was soon became the devil. Jubilee can shout hoarse about Maraga but his decision stands.
About IEBC - they should implement the changes needed to comply with the court order - Chebukati's matrix should not be bound anyhow by NASA's (or Jubilee's) minimums and conditions. If majority commissioners have overruled Chebukati that is internal to the commission and the worst he can do is quit as chair. A commission is not meant to work by consensus just like parliament or a corporate board. Even the SCORK itself rules by majority.
NASA boycott... as long the elections are upheld by the SCORK if petitioned - that is more useful than NASA's concurrence or concession. We have been told here that the issue is Kalenjin-Gema ping pong :) They must share power with the Luo or get ready for the parliamentary system, federalism, secession - am not clear what comes first :D Well, welcome to democracy.
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How can you have credible elections when voters and potential voters are being killed, JEBC commissioners are resigning and the few remaining are compromised, one main candidate has withdrawn, rival losers have been bought, half the country won't vote and a fringe candidate is threatening to make the sky fall, killer police are openly partisan, EU observers are giddy with expectant bias, and the US is looking the other way?
I wonder why. These are the independent voice we can trust - compared to the candidates.
They want "stability". What the African wants comes a distant second.
That's one way of viewing the matter. They loathe extra-legal arrangements in lieu of democracy.
Why don't they want stability in very many other places - Zim, DRC, Venezuela, Turkey, name it? All places that have regional upheavals and more geopolitical than Kenya.
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Robina, you seem to be really lost in your thought and reason since you decided to abandon your senses and join the "winning team". You simply stopped making sense anymore. Be yourself.
Robina what's so hard to understand about NASA boycotting selections? After Aug 8 Jubilee dared NASA to go to court and it did. Jubilee again dared NASA to boycott and it has. NASA game goes beyond going to court now. Everybody can see Jubilee intends to neuter courts and render them TuMutungaroos where any Njoke Ndugu can change minutes and verdicts.
We beat this horse dead sometimes back. Mutunga was appointed by JSC and was cheered by everyone as reformist. He was soon became the devil. Jubilee can shout hoarse about Maraga but his decision stands.
About IEBC - they should implement the changes needed to comply with the court order - Chebukati's matrix should not be bound anyhow by NASA's (or Jubilee's) minimums and conditions. If majority commissioners have overruled Chebukati that is internal to the commission and the worst he can do is quit as chair. A commission is not meant to work by consensus just like parliament or a corporate board. Even the SCORK itself rules by majority.
NASA boycott... as long the elections are upheld by the SCORK if petitioned - that is more useful than NASA's concurrence or concession. We have been told here that the issue is Kalenjin-Gema ping pong :) They must share power with the Luo or get ready for the parliamentary system, federalism, secession - am not clear what comes first :D Well, welcome to democracy.
Robina is good people but she loves winners. She will not be caught standing behind ideas that face great obstacles and are likely to fail in the near term, save for Elon Musk's hallucinations :D.
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What "both sides" are these? There are six equal candidates.
Uhuru and Aukot. The only confirmed parcitipants in Chebukati's sham election on the 26th October.
Aukot and Dr Kaluyu are happy with the process. IEBC should simply follow the law - they do not have the capacity to cause consensus among competitors. There is no such requirement - just hold legal elections.
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Both Akombe and Chebukati are clearly saying that elections which meet the legal requirements cannot be held under the prevailing circumstances. Which part of that are you having problems comprehending. Even RV Pundit and the rogue pastor are starting to get it.
What "both sides" are these? There are six equal candidates.
Uhuru and Aukot. The only confirmed parcitipants in Chebukati's sham election on the 26th October.
Aukot and Dr Kaluyu are happy with the process. IEBC should simply follow the law - they do not have the capacity to cause consensus among competitors. There is no such requirement - just hold legal elections.
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How can you have credible elections when voters and potential voters are being killed, JEBC commissioners are resigning and the few remaining are compromised, one main candidate has withdrawn, rival losers have been bought, half the country won't vote and a fringe candidate is threatening to make the sky fall, killer police are openly partisan, EU observers are giddy with expectant bias, and the US is looking the other way?
I wonder why. These are the independent voice we can trust - compared to the candidates.
They want "stability". What the African wants comes a distant second.
That's one way of viewing the matter. They loathe extra-legal arrangements in lieu of democracy.
Why don't they want stability in very many other places - Zim, DRC, Venezuela, Turkey, name it? All places that have regional upheavals and more geopolitical than Kenya.
They do. They have different cards for each country depending on their strengths. Their issue with Zim reached its apex when kaburus were directly affected. It has since fizzled out with Zim having paid a heavy price and most kaburus no longer in harms way. DRC is stable enough for their purposes. Turkey is an ongoing problem and an ally in NATO so they have to tread carefully. Venezuela is America's backyard and has to be punished for setting a bad example of independence from uncle Sam's wishes.
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What do you mean? I am myself of course. My view is that any reforms should be done for posterity. Elections need to be done by the IEBC as ordered by the supreme court. If Raila or Akombe or Chebukati or even Njoki quits - that is their choice and history will judge them.
Sometime in July - as NASA supporters - we laughed off Pundit here during Kiai ruling when Chebukati was reminded by the judges that he is not the commission. Well, that objective holds now and he can resign if he is undemocratic and cannot be overruled by the majority.
Robina, you seem to be really lost in your thought and reason since you decided to abandon your senses and join the "winning team". You simply stopped making sense anymore. Be yourself.
Robina what's so hard to understand about NASA boycotting selections? After Aug 8 Jubilee dared NASA to go to court and it did. Jubilee again dared NASA to boycott and it has. NASA game goes beyond going to court now. Everybody can see Jubilee intends to neuter courts and render them TuMutungaroos where any Njoke Ndugu can change minutes and verdicts.
We beat this horse dead sometimes back. Mutunga was appointed by JSC and was cheered by everyone as reformist. He was soon became the devil. Jubilee can shout hoarse about Maraga but his decision stands.
About IEBC - they should implement the changes needed to comply with the court order - Chebukati's matrix should not be bound anyhow by NASA's (or Jubilee's) minimums and conditions. If majority commissioners have overruled Chebukati that is internal to the commission and the worst he can do is quit as chair. A commission is not meant to work by consensus just like parliament or a corporate board. Even the SCORK itself rules by majority.
NASA boycott... as long the elections are upheld by the SCORK if petitioned - that is more useful than NASA's concurrence or concession. We have been told here that the issue is Kalenjin-Gema ping pong :) They must share power with the Luo or get ready for the parliamentary system, federalism, secession - am not clear what comes first :D Well, welcome to democracy.
-
Robina, you seem to be really lost in your thought and reason since you decided to abandon your senses and join the "winning team". You simply stopped making sense anymore. Be yourself.
Robina what's so hard to understand about NASA boycotting selections? After Aug 8 Jubilee dared NASA to go to court and it did. Jubilee again dared NASA to boycott and it has. NASA game goes beyond going to court now. Everybody can see Jubilee intends to neuter courts and render them TuMutungaroos where any Njoke Ndugu can change minutes and verdicts.
We beat this horse dead sometimes back. Mutunga was appointed by JSC and was cheered by everyone as reformist. He was soon became the devil. Jubilee can shout hoarse about Maraga but his decision stands.
About IEBC - they should implement the changes needed to comply with the court order - Chebukati's matrix should not be bound anyhow by NASA's (or Jubilee's) minimums and conditions. If majority commissioners have overruled Chebukati that is internal to the commission and the worst he can do is quit as chair. A commission is not meant to work by consensus just like parliament or a corporate board. Even the SCORK itself rules by majority.
NASA boycott... as long the elections are upheld by the SCORK if petitioned - that is more useful than NASA's concurrence or concession. We have been told here that the issue is Kalenjin-Gema ping pong :) They must share power with the Luo or get ready for the parliamentary system, federalism, secession - am not clear what comes first :D Well, welcome to democracy.
Robina is good people but she loves winners. She will not be caught standing behind ideas that face great obstacles and are likely to fail in the near term, save for Elon Musk's hallucinations :D.
Thanks for the analysis. I am democratic so I don't think unpleasant ideas are bad. Like declaring Maraga a mkora because he has surprised me. Or well, let's overhaul the system because our man lost. Should we also disband the SCORK because they ruled against Uhuru 8)
NASA can boycott in principle - just like Akombe - and vehement Njoki. Secession and violence - after losing - are absolute antidemocracy.
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Because there are 7 commissioners - and these are 2 - who happen to be in the minority. Njoki thinks the SCORK ruling was absolutely wrong too you know. The rules apply.
Both Akombe and Chebukati are clearly saying that elections which meet the legal requirements cannot be held under the prevailing circumstances. Which part of that are you having problems comprehending. Even RV Pundit and the rogue pastor are starting to get it.
What "both sides" are these? There are six equal candidates.
Uhuru and Aukot. The only confirmed parcitipants in Chebukati's sham election on the 26th October.
Aukot and Dr Kaluyu are happy with the process. IEBC should simply follow the law - they do not have the capacity to cause consensus among competitors. There is no such requirement - just hold legal elections.
-
How can you have credible elections when voters and potential voters are being killed, JEBC commissioners are resigning and the few remaining are compromised, one main candidate has withdrawn, rival losers have been bought, half the country won't vote and a fringe candidate is threatening to make the sky fall, killer police are openly partisan, EU observers are giddy with expectant bias, and the US is looking the other way?
I wonder why. These are the independent voice we can trust - compared to the candidates.
They want "stability". What the African wants comes a distant second.
That's one way of viewing the matter. They loathe extra-legal arrangements in lieu of democracy.
Why don't they want stability in very many other places - Zim, DRC, Venezuela, Turkey, name it? All places that have regional upheavals and more geopolitical than Kenya.
They do. They have different cards for each country depending on their strengths. Their issue with Zim reached its apex when kaburus were directly affected. It has since fizzled out with Zim having paid a heavy price and most kaburus no longer in harms way. DRC is stable enough for their purposes. Turkey is an ongoing problem and an ally in NATO so they have to tread carefully. Venezuela is America's backyard and has to be punished for setting a bad example of independence from uncle Sam's wishes.
Kenya is a fledgling democracy with a new "progressive" - US copypaste :) - katiba. They don't want it sullied with a new NARA.
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Robina, you seem to be really lost in your thought and reason since you decided to abandon your senses and join the "winning team". You simply stopped making sense anymore. Be yourself.
Robina what's so hard to understand about NASA boycotting selections? After Aug 8 Jubilee dared NASA to go to court and it did. Jubilee again dared NASA to boycott and it has. NASA game goes beyond going to court now. Everybody can see Jubilee intends to neuter courts and render them TuMutungaroos where any Njoke Ndugu can change minutes and verdicts.
We beat this horse dead sometimes back. Mutunga was appointed by JSC and was cheered by everyone as reformist. He was soon became the devil. Jubilee can shout hoarse about Maraga but his decision stands.
About IEBC - they should implement the changes needed to comply with the court order - Chebukati's matrix should not be bound anyhow by NASA's (or Jubilee's) minimums and conditions. If majority commissioners have overruled Chebukati that is internal to the commission and the worst he can do is quit as chair. A commission is not meant to work by consensus just like parliament or a corporate board. Even the SCORK itself rules by majority.
NASA boycott... as long the elections are upheld by the SCORK if petitioned - that is more useful than NASA's concurrence or concession. We have been told here that the issue is Kalenjin-Gema ping pong :) They must share power with the Luo or get ready for the parliamentary system, federalism, secession - am not clear what comes first :D Well, welcome to democracy.
Robina is good people but she loves winners. She will not be caught standing behind ideas that face great obstacles and are likely to fail in the near term, save for Elon Musk's hallucinations :D .
Thanks for the analysis. I am democratic so I don't think unpleasant ideas are bad. Like declaring Maraga a mkora because he has surprised me. Or well, let's overhaul the system because our man lost. Should we also disband the SCORK because they ruled against Uhuru 8)
NASA can boycott in principle - just like Akombe - and vehement Njoki. Secession and violence - after losing - are absolute antidemocracy.
You want to ask yourself, Why would someone kill or be killed over an election? Is it really just because they lost like Gor fans going on the rampage? Yes Raila of course wants power. But can you seriously convince yourself that what jubilee wants to do to SCOK is morally equivalent to the demands placed on IEBC by NASA?
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Robina, you seem to be really lost in your thought and reason since you decided to abandon your senses and join the "winning team". You simply stopped making sense anymore. Be yourself.
Robina what's so hard to understand about NASA boycotting selections? After Aug 8 Jubilee dared NASA to go to court and it did. Jubilee again dared NASA to boycott and it has. NASA game goes beyond going to court now. Everybody can see Jubilee intends to neuter courts and render them TuMutungaroos where any Njoke Ndugu can change minutes and verdicts.
We beat this horse dead sometimes back. Mutunga was appointed by JSC and was cheered by everyone as reformist. He was soon became the devil. Jubilee can shout hoarse about Maraga but his decision stands.
About IEBC - they should implement the changes needed to comply with the court order - Chebukati's matrix should not be bound anyhow by NASA's (or Jubilee's) minimums and conditions. If majority commissioners have overruled Chebukati that is internal to the commission and the worst he can do is quit as chair. A commission is not meant to work by consensus just like parliament or a corporate board. Even the SCORK itself rules by majority.
NASA boycott... as long the elections are upheld by the SCORK if petitioned - that is more useful than NASA's concurrence or concession. We have been told here that the issue is Kalenjin-Gema ping pong :) They must share power with the Luo or get ready for the parliamentary system, federalism, secession - am not clear what comes first :D Well, welcome to democracy.
Robina is good people but she loves winners. She will not be caught standing behind ideas that face great obstacles and are likely to fail in the near term, save for Elon Musk's hallucinations :D .
Thanks for the analysis. I am democratic so I don't think unpleasant ideas are bad. Like declaring Maraga a mkora because he has surprised me. Or well, let's overhaul the system because our man lost. Should we also disband the SCORK because they ruled against Uhuru 8)
NASA can boycott in principle - just like Akombe - and vehement Njoki. Secession and violence - after losing - are absolute antidemocracy.
You want to ask yourself, Why would someone kill or be killed over an election? Is it really just because they lost like Gor fans going on the rampage? Yes Raila of course wants power. But can you seriously convince yourself that what jubilee wants to do to SCOK is morally equivalent to the demands placed on IEBC by NASA?
Yes. Absolutely. Jubilee's victory was tossed out hence the bitterness, "Wakora 4", etc. Commissioners have been forced out before - in Jan 2017 - after they thwarted Okoa Kenya. None of these is new at all - the wheel turns nothing ever changes.
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Robina, you seem to be really lost in your thought and reason since you decided to abandon your senses and join the "winning team". You simply stopped making sense anymore. Be yourself.
We beat this horse dead sometimes back. Mutunga was appointed by JSC and was cheered by everyone as reformist. He was soon became the devil. Jubilee can shout hoarse about Maraga but his decision stands.
About IEBC - they should implement the changes needed to comply with the court order - Chebukati's matrix should not be bound anyhow by NASA's (or Jubilee's) minimums and conditions. If majority commissioners have overruled Chebukati that is internal to the commission and the worst he can do is quit as chair. A commission is not meant to work by consensus just like parliament or a corporate board. Even the SCORK itself rules by majority.
NASA boycott... as long the elections are upheld by the SCORK if petitioned - that is more useful than NASA's concurrence or concession. We have been told here that the issue is Kalenjin-Gema ping pong :) They must share power with the Luo or get ready for the parliamentary system, federalism, secession - am not clear what comes first :D Well, welcome to democracy.
Robina is good people but she loves winners. She will not be caught standing behind ideas that face great obstacles and are likely to fail in the near term, save for Elon Musk's hallucinations :D .
Thanks for the analysis. I am democratic so I don't think unpleasant ideas are bad. Like declaring Maraga a mkora because he has surprised me. Or well, let's overhaul the system because our man lost. Should we also disband the SCORK because they ruled against Uhuru 8)
NASA can boycott in principle - just like Akombe - and vehement Njoki. Secession and violence - after losing - are absolute antidemocracy.
You want to ask yourself, Why would someone kill or be killed over an election? Is it really just because they lost like Gor fans going on the rampage? Yes Raila of course wants power. But can you seriously convince yourself that what jubilee wants to do to SCOK is morally equivalent to the demands placed on IEBC by NASA?
Yes. Absolutely. Jubilee's victory was tossed out hence the bitterness, "Wakora 4", etc. Commissioners have been forced out before - in Jan 2017 - after they thwarted Okoa Kenya. None of these is new at all - the wheel turns nothing ever changes.
But you are saying the court tossed out a victory, when they are saying there was no evidence of such a victory. If you are all for institutions to do their work unhindered, why are you giving weight to the jubilant's discredited claims?
Now the jubilant wants to kill the court for doing its work. NASA wants IEBC to reform because it failed its work. We don't know what went wrong with transmission on that material day, yet IEBC wants to assure us it wont happen again. In this narrow scenario alone, there is no way I would sympathize with jubilant intentions, even if I recognize NASA's political angle.
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That's exactly what I mean by saying that you do not make sense anymore. 1) the elections have to meet the Maraga standards and that cannot be done in 9 days. Why then, would IEBC hold elections that are going to be nullified just for the sake of holding elections (Bora Uchaguzi vs. Unchaguzi bora). This is why we need dialogue before the elections so that we can extend time for the elections and hold Uchaguzi bora later on. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?
What do you mean? I am myself of course. My view is that any reforms should be done for posterity. Elections need to be done by the IEBC as ordered by the supreme court. If Raila or Akombe or Chebukati or even Njoki quits - that is their choice and history will judge them.
Sometime in July - as NASA supporters - we laughed off Pundit here during Kiai ruling when Chebukati was reminded by the judges that he is not the commission. Well, that objective holds now and he can resign if he is undemocratic and cannot be overruled by the majority.
Robina, you seem to be really lost in your thought and reason since you decided to abandon your senses and join the "winning team". You simply stopped making sense anymore. Be yourself.
Robina what's so hard to understand about NASA boycotting selections? After Aug 8 Jubilee dared NASA to go to court and it did. Jubilee again dared NASA to boycott and it has. NASA game goes beyond going to court now. Everybody can see Jubilee intends to neuter courts and render them TuMutungaroos where any Njoke Ndugu can change minutes and verdicts.
We beat this horse dead sometimes back. Mutunga was appointed by JSC and was cheered by everyone as reformist. He was soon became the devil. Jubilee can shout hoarse about Maraga but his decision stands.
About IEBC - they should implement the changes needed to comply with the court order - Chebukati's matrix should not be bound anyhow by NASA's (or Jubilee's) minimums and conditions. If majority commissioners have overruled Chebukati that is internal to the commission and the worst he can do is quit as chair. A commission is not meant to work by consensus just like parliament or a corporate board. Even the SCORK itself rules by majority.
NASA boycott... as long the elections are upheld by the SCORK if petitioned - that is more useful than NASA's concurrence or concession. We have been told here that the issue is Kalenjin-Gema ping pong :) They must share power with the Luo or get ready for the parliamentary system, federalism, secession - am not clear what comes first :D Well, welcome to democracy.
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I do not even think that is Robina anymore unless she is playing games in which case there is really no need engaging with her.
Robina, you seem to be really lost in your thought and reason since you decided to abandon your senses and join the "winning team". You simply stopped making sense anymore. Be yourself.
We beat this horse dead sometimes back. Mutunga was appointed by JSC and was cheered by everyone as reformist. He was soon became the devil. Jubilee can shout hoarse about Maraga but his decision stands.
About IEBC - they should implement the changes needed to comply with the court order - Chebukati's matrix should not be bound anyhow by NASA's (or Jubilee's) minimums and conditions. If majority commissioners have overruled Chebukati that is internal to the commission and the worst he can do is quit as chair. A commission is not meant to work by consensus just like parliament or a corporate board. Even the SCORK itself rules by majority.
NASA boycott... as long the elections are upheld by the SCORK if petitioned - that is more useful than NASA's concurrence or concession. We have been told here that the issue is Kalenjin-Gema ping pong :) They must share power with the Luo or get ready for the parliamentary system, federalism, secession - am not clear what comes first :D Well, welcome to democracy.
Robina is good people but she loves winners. She will not be caught standing behind ideas that face great obstacles and are likely to fail in the near term, save for Elon Musk's hallucinations :D .
Thanks for the analysis. I am democratic so I don't think unpleasant ideas are bad. Like declaring Maraga a mkora because he has surprised me. Or well, let's overhaul the system because our man lost. Should we also disband the SCORK because they ruled against Uhuru 8)
NASA can boycott in principle - just like Akombe - and vehement Njoki. Secession and violence - after losing - are absolute antidemocracy.
You want to ask yourself, Why would someone kill or be killed over an election? Is it really just because they lost like Gor fans going on the rampage? Yes Raila of course wants power. But can you seriously convince yourself that what jubilee wants to do to SCOK is morally equivalent to the demands placed on IEBC by NASA?
Yes. Absolutely. Jubilee's victory was tossed out hence the bitterness, "Wakora 4", etc. Commissioners have been forced out before - in Jan 2017 - after they thwarted Okoa Kenya. None of these is new at all - the wheel turns nothing ever changes.
But you are saying the court tossed out a victory, when they are saying there was no evidence of such a victory. If you are all for institutions to do their work unhindered, why are you giving weight to the jubilant's discredited claims?
Now the jubilant wants to kill the court for doing its work. NASA wants IEBC to reform because it failed its work. We don't know what went wrong with transmission on that material day, yet IEBC wants to assure us it wont happen again. In this narrow scenario alone, there is no way I would sympathize with jubilant intentions, even if I recognize NASA's political angle.
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Robina, you seem to be really lost in your thought and reason since you decided to abandon your senses and join the "winning team". You simply stopped making sense anymore. Be yourself.
We beat this horse dead sometimes back. Mutunga was appointed by JSC and was cheered by everyone as reformist. He was soon became the devil. Jubilee can shout hoarse about Maraga but his decision stands.
About IEBC - they should implement the changes needed to comply with the court order - Chebukati's matrix should not be bound anyhow by NASA's (or Jubilee's) minimums and conditions. If majority commissioners have overruled Chebukati that is internal to the commission and the worst he can do is quit as chair. A commission is not meant to work by consensus just like parliament or a corporate board. Even the SCORK itself rules by majority.
NASA boycott... as long the elections are upheld by the SCORK if petitioned - that is more useful than NASA's concurrence or concession. We have been told here that the issue is Kalenjin-Gema ping pong :) They must share power with the Luo or get ready for the parliamentary system, federalism, secession - am not clear what comes first :D Well, welcome to democracy.
Robina is good people but she loves winners. She will not be caught standing behind ideas that face great obstacles and are likely to fail in the near term, save for Elon Musk's hallucinations :D .
Thanks for the analysis. I am democratic so I don't think unpleasant ideas are bad. Like declaring Maraga a mkora because he has surprised me. Or well, let's overhaul the system because our man lost. Should we also disband the SCORK because they ruled against Uhuru 8)
NASA can boycott in principle - just like Akombe - and vehement Njoki. Secession and violence - after losing - are absolute antidemocracy.
You want to ask yourself, Why would someone kill or be killed over an election? Is it really just because they lost like Gor fans going on the rampage? Yes Raila of course wants power. But can you seriously convince yourself that what jubilee wants to do to SCOK is morally equivalent to the demands placed on IEBC by NASA?
Yes. Absolutely. Jubilee's victory was tossed out hence the bitterness, "Wakora 4", etc. Commissioners have been forced out before - in Jan 2017 - after they thwarted Okoa Kenya. None of these is new at all - the wheel turns nothing ever changes.
But you are saying the court tossed out a victory, when they are saying there was no evidence of such a victory. If you are all for institutions to do their work unhindered, why are you giving weight to the jubilant's discredited claims?
Now the jubilant wants to kill the court for doing its work. NASA wants IEBC to reform because it failed its work. We don't know what went wrong with transmission on that material day, yet IEBC wants to assure us it wont happen again. In this narrow scenario alone, there is no way I would sympathize with jubilant intentions, even if I recognize NASA's political angle.
I am not neutral, just objective. If we were neutral there would be no debates - no politics - no ideas, no development. I am an avid debater.
I think the SCORK ruling was wrong. No I don't think the justices, registrar, etc should be kicked out - especially because the accusations of impropriety are from the bitter loser. I absolutely don't agree with the "probe" by EACC/DPP - which I think will be quashed by a court order as an illegal witch-hunt.
I am for institutions yes. IEBC should carry out its reforms by itself - because the competitors are biased as expected. They should not be told by NASA or Jubilee or the Aukots what to do. Their job is not to be please the parties, just to serve Kenya by following the law. Why do you want me to support NASA's demands? The commissioners should decide by themselves how and what to reform.
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This is the opinion of 2 out of 7 commissioners. They should hold a vote on this and the majority opinion is the official position. This a basic principle of democracy.
That's exactly what I mean by saying that you do not make sense anymore. 1) the elections have to meet the Maraga standards and that cannot be done in 9 days. Why then, would IEBC hold elections that are going to be nullified just for the sake of holding elections (Bora Uchaguzi vs. Unchaguzi bora). This is why we need dialogue before the elections so that we can extend time for the elections and hold Uchaguzi bora later on. Why is that so difficult to comprehend?
What do you mean? I am myself of course. My view is that any reforms should be done for posterity. Elections need to be done by the IEBC as ordered by the supreme court. If Raila or Akombe or Chebukati or even Njoki quits - that is their choice and history will judge them.
Sometime in July - as NASA supporters - we laughed off Pundit here during Kiai ruling when Chebukati was reminded by the judges that he is not the commission. Well, that objective holds now and he can resign if he is undemocratic and cannot be overruled by the majority.
Robina, you seem to be really lost in your thought and reason since you decided to abandon your senses and join the "winning team". You simply stopped making sense anymore. Be yourself.
Robina what's so hard to understand about NASA boycotting selections? After Aug 8 Jubilee dared NASA to go to court and it did. Jubilee again dared NASA to boycott and it has. NASA game goes beyond going to court now. Everybody can see Jubilee intends to neuter courts and render them TuMutungaroos where any Njoke Ndugu can change minutes and verdicts.
We beat this horse dead sometimes back. Mutunga was appointed by JSC and was cheered by everyone as reformist. He was soon became the devil. Jubilee can shout hoarse about Maraga but his decision stands.
About IEBC - they should implement the changes needed to comply with the court order - Chebukati's matrix should not be bound anyhow by NASA's (or Jubilee's) minimums and conditions. If majority commissioners have overruled Chebukati that is internal to the commission and the worst he can do is quit as chair. A commission is not meant to work by consensus just like parliament or a corporate board. Even the SCORK itself rules by majority.
NASA boycott... as long the elections are upheld by the SCORK if petitioned - that is more useful than NASA's concurrence or concession. We have been told here that the issue is Kalenjin-Gema ping pong :) They must share power with the Luo or get ready for the parliamentary system, federalism, secession - am not clear what comes first :D Well, welcome to democracy.
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https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2rMMQJiqMB8clB5OXJLSHRiSkk
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He has no confidence of other comissioners and need to ship his nasa behind out.nobody should hold the country at ransom.
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Right now it's Ruto and Ouru holding the country ransome. The country needs to quickly figure out how to legally terminate the October 26 elections, clean up JEBC and then hold fresh elections. Ouru does not understand that the more he threatens the more we loathe him. He cannot intimidate or scare us into submission. How?
He has no confidence of other comissioners and need to ship his nasa behind out.nobody should hold the country at ransom.
henthre
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Right now it's Ruto and Ouru holding the country ransome. The country needs to quickly figure out how to legally terminate the October 26 elections, clean up JEBC and then hold fresh elections. Ouru does not understand that the more he threatens the more we loathe him. He cannot intimidate or scare us into submission. How?
He has no confidence of other comissioners and need to ship his nasa behind out.nobody should hold the country at ransom.
henthre
Until you figure that...we havr elections in a week timr..iebc need to make it happen...and they have all the tools.
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Right now it's Ruto and Ouru holding the country ransome. The country needs to quickly figure out how to legally terminate the October 26 elections, clean up JEBC and then hold fresh elections. Ouru does not understand that the more he threatens the more we loathe him. He cannot intimidate or scare us into submission. How?
He has no confidence of other comissioners and need to ship his nasa behind out.nobody should hold the country at ransom.
henthre
NASWA has a simple solution; ‘sovereignty belongs to the people and they can legally disrupt an unconstitutional process’ :lolz:
Why do you think Babu has refused to caution his supporters against disruption?
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(https://s1.postimg.org/6ej46kkrdb/C8960494-5197-4500-_BE20-_D83_BD16_CD267.jpg)
Chebu is convinced withdrawal leads to crisis and he has vowed not to be part of that.
Only way he can avoid that is resignation or ensuring there’s no withdrawal. Withdrawl is certain, resignation ain’t.
To what extent is Chebu responsible for the ensuing crisis?
Supposing a Petition is filed(it will be filed) and it is found the Elections was legal and held according to every imaginable constitutional principle. Whose fault is it that we plunged into a crisis?
Methinks Chebu should do his best to deliver a free and fair election and let the chips fall where they may.