My question is whether illegal evidence is admissible.
JSC or Tribunal is not a court room. So anything goes. The veracity of allegations is what matters. Just like Tunoi case. Obviously how the guy got call records and call data will be a big question and whether Safaricom can back this up. If this information is true - they should not be allowed to precede another case. GoK has many ways to make life hard for these two - and force them to resign.Oh yeah, not a court I get.My question is whether illegal evidence is admissible.
Itumbi conspiracy theories.
Itumbi garbage in, garbage out meant to pre empt sock full rulings. I believe this is fodder for jubilee idiots.
Itumbi conspiracy theories.
Now release chiloba, chebukati and iebc commissioners call log. Am loving this and while at it release Njoki ndugu and Ojwang call logs....not to forget Matiangi who was stalking Scok judges all through the night to rule in their favor. I love mafia wars.
I see NASWA grasping at the straws when affidavit provide numbers, places and time of the improper conduct. Let SCOK judges release their judgement and then get back to responding to the petition for their removal.
The thing has just been released. I wouldn't rush to that conclusion just yet. I am betting it's just Itumbi crap and will be drowned out by the full ruling. The judges in question were recently promoted to SCOK. That says something about their integrity. If they are to mess around, more likely they would go with the moneyed thugs in power.
The petition has been filled at JSC and acknowledged as received. Best wait for SCOK judges names or JSC to respond to it. Definitely they have given names, places, numbers and people involved. My expectation is that JSC will ask for response from judges and if they are not satisfied - will ask PORK to form a tribunal. Anything less than that would mean that our judiciary is no good - and need to go.The thing has just been released. I wouldn't rush to that conclusion just yet. I am betting it's just Itumbi crap and will be drowned out by the full ruling. The judges in question were recently promoted to SCOK. That says something about their integrity. If they are to mess around, more likely they would go with the moneyed thugs in power.
Pundit, you are celebrating although nothing has been proven. Those are mere allegations.
Who gave them the numbers, time, place? Without a court order can the provider to give them this information? That is why I am not sold on it.
NIS don't need a court order to tap your phone. If NIS then handed this evidence to me - and I file a petition that is it.I can always I got this from anonymous sources or on alternatively can reveal the source (NIS guy) in camera. There is prima facia evidence then to ask order for safaricom to provide logs. This petition that will heard by JSC and SCOK - it's not a criminal proceeding - so the standard here is very low - and nearly everything is admissible.
I don't think any admissibility of this evidence will matter in tribunal - Baraza was fired for pinching someone nose.
The issues is whether this indeed happened - so Safaricom logs, CCTV cameras on the buildings and such evidence will be required.Who gave them the numbers, time, place? Without a court order can the provider to give them this information? That is why I am not sold on it.
Because even Nollywood would trash that story, JSC should send it straight to the bin without apologies.I almost shared this view until Pundito reminded me this is not a court but sort of an inquiry.
Pundit, how is this prima facie evidence? They are allegations.
Because even Nollywood would trash that story, JSC should send it straight to the bin without apologies.I almost shared this view until Pundito reminded me this is not a court but sort of an inquiry.
But then again, whistleblowers' evidence is largely illegally obtained. Should JSC permit procedural and legal technicalities get in their way of serving the country?
JSC should do their job. It doesn't mean they have to entertain everything that any busybody throws their way because there might be something. Sure they should look it over before dismissing it for what it is. An attempt at intimidation of judges for doing their work. It is speculative theorizing.
Ngujuri petition was speculative theorizing. This isn't. This guy has provided detailed meetings, calls with places and name. I don't know what else you imagine a petition should have? a North Korea Nuke head?Sawa, let us see the eftense. I'm gonna look at the laws on ethics re judicial officers and see the sanctions provided for the improper communications alleged. In any case, I know even you know the judges would be idiots to be corrupt on behalf of a losing, poorer side out of power. This is punishment for daring to defy the ruling mafioso.JSC should do their job. It doesn't mean they have to entertain everything that any busybody throws their way because there might be something. Sure they should look it over before dismissing it for what it is. An attempt at intimidation of judges for doing their work. It is speculative theorizing.
What part makes it 'speculative theorizing'?Because even Nollywood would trash that story, JSC should send it straight to the bin without apologies.I almost shared this view until Pundito reminded me this is not a court but sort of an inquiry.
But then again, whistleblowers' evidence is largely illegally obtained. Should JSC permit procedural and legal technicalities get in their way of serving the country?
JSC should do their job. It doesn't mean they have to entertain everything that any busybody throws their way because there might be something. Sure they should look it over before dismissing it for what it is. An attempt at intimidation of judges for doing their work. It is speculative theorizing.
I think the part that concerns evidence? Windy is entitled to see this as speculative theorizing until we see eftense.What part makes it 'speculative theorizing'?Because even Nollywood would trash that story, JSC should send it straight to the bin without apologies.I almost shared this view until Pundito reminded me this is not a court but sort of an inquiry.
But then again, whistleblowers' evidence is largely illegally obtained. Should JSC permit procedural and legal technicalities get in their way of serving the country?
JSC should do their job. It doesn't mean they have to entertain everything that any busybody throws their way because there might be something. Sure they should look it over before dismissing it for what it is. An attempt at intimidation of judges for doing their work. It is speculative theorizing.
You are making assumptions that they can only be bought/corrupted by moneyNgujuri petition was speculative theorizing. This isn't. This guy has provided detailed meetings, calls with places and name. I don't know what else you imagine a petition should have? a North Korea Nuke head?Sawa, let us see the eftense. I'm gonna look at the laws on ethics re judicial officers and see the sanctions provided for the improper communications alleged. In any case, I know even you know the judges would be idiots to be corrupt on behalf of a losing, poorer side out of powerr. This is punishment for daring to defy the ruling mafioso.JSC should do their job. It doesn't mean they have to entertain everything that any busybody throws their way because there might be something. Sure they should look it over before dismissing it for what it is. An attempt at intimidation of judges for doing their work. It is speculative theorizing.
vooke, is there a sworn affidavit for each petition? I didn't see that in your links.That's all I have
Let us know if you find them. In the absence of any, I'm gonna go beyond Windy's speculative theorizing and call it malicious witch-hunting. They'd better provide more than accusations on a piece of paper to justify the actions they are seeking. Indeed I heard a few days ago on a talk show of a plot in parliament to create false charges, not to remove these judges, but to smear them for future purposes.vooke, is there a sworn affidavit for each petition? I didn't see that in your links.That's all I have
Ngujuri petition was speculative theorizing. This isn't. This guy has provided detailed meetings, calls with places and name. I don't know what else you imagine a petition should have? a North Korea Nuke head?You can create false charges with details. There should be testimony of those people who saw these meetings somewhere, no?JSC should do their job. It doesn't mean they have to entertain everything that any busybody throws their way because there might be something. Sure they should look it over before dismissing it for what it is. An attempt at intimidation of judges for doing their work. It is speculative theorizing.
I'm making an assumption that they would not be willing to risk being on the receiving end of an angry govt for doing something wrong. It's a rebuttable presumption in favour of sense.You are making assumptions that they can only be bought/corrupted by moneyNgujuri petition was speculative theorizing. This isn't. This guy has provided detailed meetings, calls with places and name. I don't know what else you imagine a petition should have? a North Korea Nuke head?Sawa, let us see the eftense. I'm gonna look at the laws on ethics re judicial officers and see the sanctions provided for the improper communications alleged. In any case, I know even you know the judges would be idiots to be corrupt on behalf of a losing, poorer side out of powerr. This is punishment for daring to defy the ruling mafioso.JSC should do their job. It doesn't mean they have to entertain everything that any busybody throws their way because there might be something. Sure they should look it over before dismissing it for what it is. An attempt at intimidation of judges for doing their work. It is speculative theorizing.
kademe wrote -
Let us know if you find them. In the absence of any, I'm gonna go beyond Windy's speculative theorizing and call it malicious witch-hunting. They'd better provide more than accusations on a piece of paper to justify the actions they are seeking. Indeed I heard a few days ago on a talk show of a plot in parliament to create false charges, not to remove these judges, but to smear them for future purposes.vooke, is there a sworn affidavit for each petition? I didn't see that in your links.That's all I have
I'm making an assumption that they would not be willing to risk being on the receiving end of an angry govt for doing something wrong. It's a rebuttable presumption in favour of sense.If they,like you,imagine NASWA has the numbers,then the 'angry government' would be days away from extinction.
That's not how the world works. Ask people who have been falsely accused of rape or pedophilia. Even false charges of corruption. I still hear "kazi kwa vijana" scandal shouted long after I saw a letter from the World Bank read to parliament denying that a single cent was lost. This report just a few days ago: http://www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Jubilee-MPs-plan-all-out-war-on-Judiciary-/1064-4099024-139w9xoz/index.html It tells me the opposite of what you're saying. Unless someone comes up with some evidence, I hope everyone and not just Maasai and wakamba follow the Kisii script. I'm just waiting for something beyond these allegations themselves soon. If not...I support all protests because it would be sickening what is going on here if it is what I think it is.Let us know if you find them. In the absence of any, I'm gonna go beyond Windy's speculative theorizing and call it malicious witch-hunting. They'd better provide more than accusations on a piece of paper to justify the actions they are seeking. Indeed I heard a few days ago on a talk show of a plot in parliament to create false charges, not to remove these judges, but to smear them for future purposes.vooke, is there a sworn affidavit for each petition? I didn't see that in your links.That's all I have
As I said, I hope the respective tribes will not mimic Kisii in defending their own forcing the petitioner(s) who are probably Jubilee given the NIS grade details, to back off. That way,whether you sight the affidavit,annexures bla de bla or not,JSC will get a chance to interrogate this.
In my world, unsubstantiated claims on a petition makes the judges heroes and legends as opposed to 'smear them for future purpose' because they will be disproved and the integrity,IQ and intent of the petitioner will be the focus as opposed to the judges.
If they thought that, they would be even less likely to behave that way.I'm making an assumption that they would not be willing to risk being on the receiving end of an angry govt for doing something wrong. It's a rebuttable presumption in favour of sense.If they,like you,imagine NASWA has the numbers,then the 'angry government' would be days away from extinction.
And again,the 'willing to risk' but presumes they was careless
Sense is in the brains of its what?
This is not a mere accusation, it is a petition,meaning the charge(s) will be interrogated and found either true or false or unproved. That's what makes it different.That's not how the world works. Ask people who have been falsely accused of rape or pedophilia. Even false charges of corruption. I still hear "kazi kwa vijana" scandal shouted long after I saw a letter from the World Bank read to parliament denying that a single cent was lost. This report just a few days ago: http://www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Jubilee-MPs-plan-all-out-war-on-Judiciary-/1064-4099024-139w9xoz/index.html It tells me the opposite of what you're saying. Unless someone comes up with some evidence, I hope everyone and not just Maasai and wakamba follow the Kisii script. I'm just waiting for something beyond these allegations themselves soon. If not...I support all protests because it would be sickening what is going on here if it is what I think it is.Let us know if you find them. In the absence of any, I'm gonna go beyond Windy's speculative theorizing and call it malicious witch-hunting. They'd better provide more than accusations on a piece of paper to justify the actions they are seeking. Indeed I heard a few days ago on a talk show of a plot in parliament to create false charges, not to remove these judges, but to smear them for future purposes.vooke, is there a sworn affidavit for each petition? I didn't see that in your links.That's all I have
As I said, I hope the respective tribes will not mimic Kisii in defending their own forcing the petitioner(s) who are probably Jubilee given the NIS grade details, to back off. That way,whether you sight the affidavit,annexures bla de bla or not,JSC will get a chance to interrogate this.
In my world, unsubstantiated claims on a petition makes the judges heroes and legends as opposed to 'smear them for future purpose' because they will be disproved and the integrity,IQ and intent of the petitioner will be the focus as opposed to the judges.
We are at the deep end of guesswork. Call it sense or whatever.If they thought that, they would be even less likely to behave that way.I'm making an assumption that they would not be willing to risk being on the receiving end of an angry govt for doing something wrong. It's a rebuttable presumption in favour of sense.If they,like you,imagine NASWA has the numbers,then the 'angry government' would be days away from extinction.
And again,the 'willing to risk' but presumes they was careless
Sense is in the brains of its what?
I don't get your last sentence.
This is not a mere accusation, it is a petition,meaning the charge(s) will be interrogated and found either true or false or unproved. That's what makes it different.vooke, accusations come in the form of report kwa polisi, formal charges, suits, petitions, indictments, they can even lead to convictions which are later quashed. My point is that creating false charges can definitely smear someone. Even just saying things in public without starting any formal process will destroy people's reputation. In any case, they said there was such a plot and here is a petition. I will wait for eftense.
We are at the deep end of guesswork. Call it sense or whatever.I meant it's a presumption that the judges, not you or me, are sensible. It's rebuttable.
This is not a mere accusation, it is a petition,meaning the charge(s) will be interrogated and found either true or false or unproved. That's what makes it different.vooke, accusations come in the form of report kwa polisi, formal charges, suits, petitions, indictments, they can even lead to convictions which are later quashed. My point is that creating false charges can definitely smear someone. Even just saying things in public without starting any formal process will destroy people's reputation. In any case, they said there was such a plot and here is a petition. I will wait for eftense.We are at the deep end of guesswork. Call it sense or whatever.I meant it's a presumption that the judges, not you or me, are sensible. It's rebuttable.
Where the state of art anti-riot gear to fukuza these Jubilidiots rioting at Supreme Court?
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Protests at Supreme Court. The war path is being laid. To get even more dirty as real thugs take charge.
A question for you.I'd have to look at the Kenyan code to see precisely, but from what I generally know about these things, it causes me to raise an eyebrow due to the timing. In general though, they should be forbidden from talking about the case before them. But if they can show they were talking about a different issue, I don't see this ALONE leading to those serious consequences you mention. Especially if it is also shown they did the same with the other side too. It might make sense in the context or be minor. For now, wacha tuone eftense of these communications. Then we can probe what they were about and the larger context.
Supposing contact and communication is established beyond doubt as alleged and on the alleged dates but you don't know the contents. Would you deem it inappropriate?
Protests at Supreme Court. The war path is being laid. To get even more dirty as real thugs take charge.
Secession is the only viable solution.
Protests at Supreme Court. The war path is being laid. To get even more dirty as real thugs take charge.
Secession is the only viable solution.
My thoughts exactly. Tuachane tu na amani...ama namna gani?
Thi8s crap has two purposes and one consequenceAsante Omorlo.
1. It seeks to give the Pro-Uthamaki forces in the JSC a majority
2. Seeks to protect Njoki Ndung'u and Ojwang (but especially the former
Chances of success: 0 (sufuri bin sufuri)
Why?
1. One can not rely on an illegality to fight an alleged illegality. The courts in Kenya are afloat with precedents on the same. Itumbi has produced call logs and basically stated that the judges were under surveillance. The call logs are illegally obtained (refer to Rawal's ruling) and therefore null and void. A court order cannot be obtained to get the same "legally" because it would be giving a stamp of legality to a crime!
2. Call logs have to be verified - meaning the accused persons have to access the server and certify that it has not been tampered with nor is it prone to such tampering before the printed record is allowed to be an exhibit. I can't see that happening as it would probably reveal that the actual tapping/ logging was done by the NIS without warrants (another illegality)
So this is for Pundit and other propagandists to use in their attacks on the judgement.
The campaign resembles one launched in the 80s against the judiciary by Moi. It ended rather badly for Moi. He did not recover from it.
The problem in our world is whenever the government or pro-government forces attack a judge - any judge - the world perceives him to be independent and upright.
Consequence: A self defeating campaign launched by a One-Cell-Brain sub mandarin who will probably bring down Uhuru.
Am glad it has awoken all the right forces to counter it. When you are fighting someone who without any effort gets thousands of people to come to his defense.... that is a war you can't win.
Won't post to this again
What do we know about the Petitioner? I submit that it is a well known mombasa based Nipatean.Nani?
The judges should lay this whole thing bare and reveal the attempts to corrupt them by Jubilee operatives. This petition might actually be a good thing, and like others have said, it will allow for the interrogation of the allegation and full defence by the judges.They will. They were busy writing their full judgment. This petition is a way of pre-empting it. MPs were planning it a few days ago. Smearing the judges before it comes out is a way of blunting its effect with these sideshows.
KTN are reporting that Smokin has one coming his way too later today.What about the Omogusii? Notice this time they made sure its a shadowy character, not the Mps.
It is safe to say that Njok's will be safe.
KTN are reporting that Smokin has one coming his way too later today.What about the Omogusii? Notice this time they made sure its a shadowy character, not the Mps.
It is safe to say that Njok's will be safe.
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A question for you.I'd have to look at the Kenyan code to see precisely, but from what I generally know about these things, it causes me to raise an eyebrow due to the timing. In general though, they should be forbidden from talking about the case before them. But if they can show they were talking about a different issue, I don't see this ALONE leading to those serious consequences you mention. Especially if it is also shown they did the same with the other side too. It might make sense in the context or be minor. For now, wacha tuone eftense of these communications. Then we can probe what they were about and the larger context.
Supposing contact and communication is established beyond doubt as alleged and on the alleged dates but you don't know the contents. Would you deem it inappropriate?
The full judgment must be very bad for them to be this desperate. Let them open the can of worms. I do not think there will be any elections sometimes soon.
Naah. They will not amend the ruling they gave, only elucidate it.The full judgment must be very bad for them to be this desperate. Let them open the can of worms. I do not think there will be any elections sometimes soon.
Can the judges "enhance" their ruling with the full judgement? i.e could we find ourselves in a situation where the 3rd Respondent is actually found culpable?
Still waiting for those named to deny these allegations.This is a formal proceeding alleging many illegalities. You can bet they are all at their lawyers and will be responding with much more care than a tweet or two.
This is a formal proceeding alleging many illegalities. You can bet they are all at their lawyers and will be responding with much more care than a tweet or two.
You know, vooke, I've gone through Lenaola's bit. The language used is very ambiguous.Ok. Circumstantial,inocent...much ado about nuthin
"communications and interactions outside the SCOK": This could as well be bumping into someone and chatting casually about the weather, schools etc. But you can think they had a meeting etc The others that involve texts, phone calls are said to be "prior"...what is prior? Are judges supposed to disclose that they've had interactions with most people in that court room on prior occasions? Hmmm.....let me look at philomena's. A clever smearer could frame things in the most damaging way that end up being very ordinary, innocent interactions.
Edit: I had missed the bit about Eukot and the apartments. The latter indicates there are videos/witnesses. Eukot's and all the above communications are most likely innocent. I say this because only in the apartments scenario do they specifically allege they discussed the petition.
Seriously, you are being sarcastic but it really could be so: Was just looking at how they framed things. The apartment meetings with Kina weta seem the MOST damaging for Lenaola, second is the Eukot texts. The rest are framed in a way that makes me think they could be ordinary: communications outside the SCOK, I mean that could be a chat while heading out/in....tutaona eftense soon and then we will see. But this is my very strong hunch re Lenaola's petition (assuming its not all a complete fabrication).You know, vooke, I've gone through Lenaola's bit. The language used is very ambiguous.Ok. Circumstantial,inocent...much ado about nuthin
"communications and interactions outside the SCOK": This could as well be bumping into someone and chatting casually about the weather, schools etc. But you can think they had a meeting etc The others that involve texts, phone calls are said to be "prior"...what is prior? Are judges supposed to disclose that they've had interactions with most people in that court room on prior occasions? Hmmm.....let me look at philomena's. A clever smearer could frame things in the most damaging way that end up being very ordinary, innocent interactions.
Edit: I had missed the bit about Eukot and the apartments. The latter indicates there are videos/witnesses. Eukot's and all the above communications are most likely innocent. I say this because only in the apartments scenario do they specifically allege they discussed the petition.
Seriously, you are being sarcastic but it really could be so: Was just looking at how they framed things. The apartment meetings with Kina weta seem the MOST damaging for Lenaola, second is the Eukot texts. The rest are framed in a way that makes me think they could be ordinary: communications outside the SCOK, I mean that could be a chat while heading out/in....tutaona eftense soon and then we will see. But this is my very strong hunch re Lenaola's petition (assuming its not all a complete fabrication).
Still waiting for those named to deny these allegations.
Ok.
Seriously, you are being sarcastic but it really could be so: Was just looking at how they framed things. The apartment meetings with Kina weta seem the MOST damaging for Lenaola, second is the Eukot texts. The rest are framed in a way that makes me think they could be ordinary: communications outside the SCOK, I mean that could be a chat while heading out/in....tutaona eftense soon and then we will see. But this is my very strong hunch re Lenaola's petition (assuming its not all a complete fabrication).
How do you even respond to that crap. That is not even a petition because it makes unsubstantiated legal conclusions without the facts. For example, if you want to accuse a judge of "improper contact", you have to be very detailed in what was said or exchanged that supports the conclusion that it was "improper contact". If a judge meets an attorney in the corridor and exchanges pleasantries, and talk about the weather, or a football game, or the family or the wedding or death of a mutual friend or family member, is that "improper contact" ? The problem with with Jubilee is that their propaganda wing is ran by idiots. This petition does not meet the standards that would trigger a serious response and should be treated with the contempt they deserve. If the complainants are lawyers, they should be reported to the Bar Association for disciplinary actions.
Ohoo please save it. Communicating with parties involved in a case while the case is going on - outside the court? What kind of nonsense are you selling us? Isn't it why they are using proxies - coz improper contact. Isn't why Orengo is using her sister and Wetangula her brother - and they are meeting in hospital?Ok, I will ignore the unnecessary rudeness. You think judges dont greet these people while a case is going on, especially in a public place like outside the SCOK? They see each other and duck? I'm not saying that is what is referred to. I'm saying someone could frame that in the exact same way as much of what is in the Lenaola allegations. You are of course free to ignore my posts.Seriously, you are being sarcastic but it really could be so: Was just looking at how they framed things. The apartment meetings with Kina weta seem the MOST damaging for Lenaola, second is the Eukot texts. The rest are framed in a way that makes me think they could be ordinary: communications outside the SCOK, I mean that could be a chat while heading out/in....tutaona eftense soon and then we will see. But this is my very strong hunch re Lenaola's petition (assuming its not all a complete fabrication).
Asante Omorlo.
Should innocent judges hide behind this legal dogma or should they challenge Safaricom to surrender voice and SMS logs?
NASWA could not rely on their server logs which were fake any way but they built in that to pressure IEBC to surrender the real logs. IEBC's failure to surrender them incriminated them. I'm thinking along these lines.
Why would either judges guard their logs from JSC with all their might
Ok, I will ignore the unnecessary rudeness. You think judges dont greet these people while a case is going on, especially in a public place like outside the SCOK? They see each other and duck? I'm not saying that is what is referred to. I'm saying someone could frame that in the exact same way as much of what is in the Lenaola allegations. You are of course free to ignore my posts.
How do you even respond to that crap. That is not even a petition because it makes unsubstantiated legal conclusions without the facts. For example, if you want to accuse a judge of "improper contact", you have to be very detailed in what was said or exchanged that supports the conclusion that it was "improper contact". If a judge meets an attorney in the corridor and exchanges pleasantries, and talk about the weather, or a football game, or the family or the wedding or death of a mutual friend or family member, is that "improper contact" ? The problem with with Jubilee is that their propaganda wing is ran by idiots. This petition does not meet the standards that would trigger a serious response and should be treated with the contempt they deserve. If the complainants are lawyers, they should be reported to the Bar Association for disciplinary actions.Petitioner has given dates,time and even duration of some of the interactions. He has also given the subject of these interactions; the SCOK petition. What makes you imagine it is unsubstantiated? Because he never copied you audio or video records of the meetings or logs?Still waiting for those named to deny these allegations.
I'll make an exception
Let me see you the judges challenge Safaricom?
There is a formal complaint. The evidence has been supplied in form of call logs obtained from Safaricom. The complaints target a member of the JSC which means there are 10 members to hear it as she would in all likelihood (unlike Ndung'u) recuse herself.
The remaining ten: Maraga could recuse himself and so could Smokin. That leaves seven with Uthamaki having 5.
So in Itumbi's mind it is an open and shut case. However, there is what he and you call "Evil Society". They would go to court. The first business would be to strike out the call logs WITH PREJUDICE! that means they cannot be brought before the JSC in any form or shape.
The would also go further to ask that the words, references and links to the said logs (if they exist) be declared dead and powerless.
The would cite the Kenya Information and Communications Act, 1998, 32 (b) and (c)
If Uhuru falls, Itumbi should be prepared for a long stint in the courts and eventually in prison.
Now about your real question: This is a hit job. If they had any real dirt on the judges they would not wait for the eve of the judgment to release it as a way oif masking their shame. They would have used it gone to the JSC and done all the dirt. Uhuru would not have been scrapping his asshole in public while sitting on this.
Any attempt to open the safaricom server would be most welcome by the Evil Society. They would use the same to demand the logs of Njoki Ndungu, Ojwang, Mullah, Muite, Matiangi, Githu Muigai, Kameru, Muhoro etc. I am sure you know where I am going.
Jubilee may be stupid (such as now galvanizing Kambas to support Mwilu or Kisii's to support Maraga) but they could not open that pandora's box.
The consequence of this is that be prepared for more dirty stuff to come out.
NB: This is NOT from safaricom. The NIS bought a system that bugs ALL phones and keeps those calls with key words. The rest is deleted between 24 hours to 6 months.
They should duck esp if they are presiding over presidential petition. In any case nobody has a problem if they met in public place - clearly the apartment in Kilimani is not private - unless it's a public brothel they meet to engage in some orgies. That would be excusable. They conciendentally they rule in their favour. Pray these allegations are false - pre-jury - otherwise if they are true - these two need to resign - and not drag judiciary down.:lolz:Ok, I will ignore the unnecessary rudeness. You think judges dont greet these people while a case is going on, especially in a public place like outside the SCOK? They see each other and duck? I'm not saying that is what is referred to. I'm saying someone could frame that in the exact same way as much of what is in the Lenaola allegations. You are of course free to ignore my posts.
I don't know how detailed you wanted it to be - it provided places, venues, meeting places, dates, phones numbers - of improper contact. Clearly they didn't just meet or communicate via proxy - and then suddenly ruled in favour of the same group.How do you even respond to that crap. That is not even a petition because it makes unsubstantiated legal conclusions without the facts. For example, if you want to accuse a judge of "improper contact", you have to be very detailed in what was said or exchanged that supports the conclusion that it was "improper contact". If a judge meets an attorney in the corridor and exchanges pleasantries, and talk about the weather, or a football game, or the family or the wedding or death of a mutual friend or family member, is that "improper contact" ? The problem with with Jubilee is that their propaganda wing is ran by idiots. This petition does not meet the standards that would trigger a serious response and should be treated with the contempt they deserve. If the complainants are lawyers, they should be reported to the Bar Association for disciplinary actions.
I'll make an exceptionAsante,
Let me see you the judges challenge Safaricom?
There is a formal complaint. The evidence has been supplied in form of call logs obtained from Safaricom. The complaints target a member of the JSC which means there are 10 members to hear it as she would in all likelihood (unlike Ndung'u) recuse herself.
The remaining ten: Maraga could recuse himself and so could Smokin. That leaves seven with Uthamaki having 5.
So in Itumbi's mind it is an open and shut case. However, there is what he and you call "Evil Society". They would go to court. The first business would be to strike out the call logs WITH PREJUDICE! that means they cannot be brought before the JSC in any form or shape.
The would also go further to ask that the words, references and links to the said logs (if they exist) be declared dead and powerless.
The would cite the Kenya Information and Communications Act, 1998, 32 (b) and (c)
If Uhuru falls, Itumbi should be prepared for a long stint in the courts and eventually in prison.
Now about your real question: This is a hit job. If they had any real dirt on the judges they would not wait for the eve of the judgment to release it as a way oif masking their shame. They would have used it gone to the JSC and done all the dirt. Uhuru would not have been scrapping his asshole in public while sitting on this.
Any attempt to open the safaricom server would be most welcome by the Evil Society. They would use the same to demand the logs of Njoki Ndungu, Ojwang, Mullah, Muite, Matiangi, Githu Muigai, Kameru, Muhoro etc. I am sure you know where I am going.
Jubilee may be stupid (such as now galvanizing Kambas to support Mwilu or Kisii's to support Maraga) but they could not open that pandora's box.
The consequence of this is that be prepared for more dirty stuff to come out.
NB: This is NOT from safaricom. The NIS bought a system that bugs ALL phones and keeps those calls with key words. The rest is deleted between 24 hours to 6 months.Asante Omorlo.
Should innocent judges hide behind this legal dogma or should they challenge Safaricom to surrender voice and SMS logs?
NASWA could not rely on their server logs which were fake any way but they built in that to pressure IEBC to surrender the real logs. IEBC's failure to surrender them incriminated them. I'm thinking along these lines.
Why would either judges guard their logs from JSC with all their might
Of course they will deny the "improper contact" ( they can do it in a sentence "we deny allegations 1-100") then the burden shifts to the complainants to substantiate their wild allegations. It will only after a detailed rebuttal of the denial that you can expect the judges to even bother giving a serious response to specific allegations which they believe is damning. I do not think we will get there. The whole thing will blow away like the Gunjiri petition.
They should duck esp if they are presiding over presidential petition. In any case nobody has a problem if they met in public place - clearly the apartment in Kilimani is not private - unless it's a public brothel they meet to engage in some orgies. That would be excusable. They conciendentally they rule in their favour. Pray these allegations are false - pre-jury - otherwise if they are true - these two need to resign - and not drag judiciary down.No one behaves this way. The ducking. Like I said the only things framed in a way that clearly points to somethung iffy re Lenaola is the appartment and Aukot texts. The rest are so ambiguous they could refer to normal interactions or interactions having nothing to do with this case ("prior")Ok, I will ignore the unnecessary rudeness. You think judges dont greet these people while a case is going on, especially in a public place like outside the SCOK? They see each other and duck? I'm not saying that is what is referred to. I'm saying someone could frame that in the exact same way as much of what is in the Lenaola allegations. You are of course free to ignore my posts.
No one behaves this way. The ducking. Like I said the only things framed in a way that clearly points to somethung iffy re Lenaola is the appartment and Aukot texts. The rest are so ambiguous they could refer to normal interactions or interactions having nothing to do with this case ("prior")
What about Lenaola or Mwilu interacting with Orengo tailor sister? Or they wanted Orengo's 0.5M suits? Please kindly again stop insulting our intelligence. If these facts are proven - they are done. Just like Tunoi or Sholei - you best thing to do now - is to wait for evidences from either party.Stop insulting your own intelligence by learning to read. Tell me which sentence Ive written youre objecting to. Im analysing the petition (specifically Lenaola's) and noting parts which are ambiguous and those which are clear and here you are jumping up and down. Dump your emotions dude.
Bottomline: JSC or Tribunal aware of the magnitude of such a case will and should not entertain any contact.No one behaves this way. The ducking. Like I said the only things framed in a way that clearly points to somethung iffy re Lenaola is the appartment and Aukot texts. The rest are so ambiguous they could refer to normal interactions or interactions having nothing to do with this case ("prior")
Stop insulting your own intelligence by learning to read. Tell me which sentence Ive written youre objecting to. Im analysing the petition and noting parts which are ambiguous and those which are clear and here you are jumping up and down. Dump your emotions dude.
Cut the crap. The apartment is not the only problem. Communicating with Orengo sister is even more criminal. It shows they are aware of what they are doing. The same with Wetangula bro. If these allegation are true - then I am expecting someone to get copper in the head - and that person who give copper to be honoured as a national hero who has dispatched a national enemy . For truly to shit on 15m kenyans who voted is worse than Alshabab.Stop insulting your own intelligence by learning to read. Tell me which sentence Ive written youre objecting to. Im analysing the petition and noting parts which are ambiguous and those which are clear and here you are jumping up and down. Dump your emotions dude.
Cut the crap. The apartment is not the only problem. Communicating with Orengo sister is even more criminal. It shows they are aware of what they are doing. The same with Wetangula bro. If these allegation are true - then I am expecting someone to get copper in the head - and that person who give copper to be honoured as a national hero who has dispatched a national enemy . For truly to shit on 15m kenyans who voted is worse than Alshabab.You CUT YOUR CRAP. Lenaola is not Philomena. And again learn to freakin read what youre responding to.Stop insulting your own intelligence by learning to read. Tell me which sentence Ive written youre objecting to. Im analysing the petition and noting parts which are ambiguous and those which are clear and here you are jumping up and down. Dump your emotions dude.
You CUT YOUR CRAP. Lenaola is not Philomena. And again learn to freakin read what youre responding to.
State what law. I am waiting.
Cut the crap. The apartment is not the only problem. Communicating with Orengo sister is even more criminal. It shows they are aware of what they are doing. The same with Wetangula bro. If these allegation are true - then I am expecting someone to get copper in the head - and that person who give copper to be honoured as a national hero who has dispatched a national enemy . For truly to shit on 15m kenyans who voted is worse than Alshabab.Stop insulting your own intelligence by learning to read. Tell me which sentence Ive written youre objecting to. Im analysing the petition and noting parts which are ambiguous and those which are clear and here you are jumping up and down. Dump your emotions dude.
Other than being Orengo's sister, she is a human being with relationships and a business woman and so is Wetangula's brother or cousin.
How do you even respond to that crap. That is not even a petition because it makes unsubstantiated legal conclusions without the facts. For example, if you want to accuse a judge of "improper contact", you have to be very detailed in what was said or exchanged that supports the conclusion that it was "improper contact". If a judge meets an attorney in the corridor and exchanges pleasantries, and talk about the weather, or a football game, or the family or the wedding or death of a mutual friend or family member, is that "improper contact" ? The problem with with Jubilee is that their propaganda wing is ran by idiots. This petition does not meet the standards that would trigger a serious response and should be treated with the contempt they deserve. If the complainants are lawyers, they should be reported to the Bar Association for disciplinary actions.Still waiting for those named to deny these allegations.
That's one of the ambiguos ones. Met on various dates and days. Doesn't say how/where? At the barber shop? At school meeting their kids? Church? That's all Im saying. Read the appartment allegation. Its a straight arrow shot, like a bulls eye: they met here and discussed the petition. Im noting the differences. It may be boring to you but its fascinating and inciteful to me. It gives me a hint about where the writer is coming from.Cut the crap. The apartment is not the only problem. Communicating with Orengo sister is even more criminal. It shows they are aware of what they are doing. The same with Wetangula bro. If these allegation are true - then I am expecting someone to get copper in the head - and that person who give copper to be honoured as a national hero who has dispatched a national enemy . For truly to shit on 15m kenyans who voted is worse than Alshabab.You CUT YOUR CRAP. Lenaola is not Philomena. And again learn to freakin read what youre responding to.Stop insulting your own intelligence by learning to read. Tell me which sentence Ive written youre objecting to. Im analysing the petition and noting parts which are ambiguous and those which are clear and here you are jumping up and down. Dump your emotions dude.
How do you even respond to that crap. That is not even a petition because it makes unsubstantiated legal conclusions without the facts. For example, if you want to accuse a judge of "improper contact", you have to be very detailed in what was said or exchanged that supports the conclusion that it was "improper contact". If a judge meets an attorney in the corridor and exchanges pleasantries, and talk about the weather, or a football game, or the family or the wedding or death of a mutual friend or family member, is that "improper contact" ? The problem with with Jubilee is that their propaganda wing is ran by idiots. This petition does not meet the standards that would trigger a serious response and should be treated with the contempt they deserve. If the complainants are lawyers, they should be reported to the Bar Association for disciplinary actions.Petitioner has given dates,time and even duration of some of the interactions. He has also given the subject of these interactions; the SCOK petition. What makes you imagine it is unsubstantiated? Because he never copied you audio or video records of the meetings or logs?Still waiting for those named to deny these allegations.
Those are for JSC. If the petition goes all the way,we will be in a position to blurt about 'unsubstantiated legal conclusions without facts'. For now,we have bold allegations than many are busy crossing their gonads that they are false or unproven
How do you know there are no affidavits?How do you even respond to that crap. That is not even a petition because it makes unsubstantiated legal conclusions without the facts. For example, if you want to accuse a judge of "improper contact", you have to be very detailed in what was said or exchanged that supports the conclusion that it was "improper contact". If a judge meets an attorney in the corridor and exchanges pleasantries, and talk about the weather, or a football game, or the family or the wedding or death of a mutual friend or family member, is that "improper contact" ? The problem with with Jubilee is that their propaganda wing is ran by idiots. This petition does not meet the standards that would trigger a serious response and should be treated with the contempt they deserve. If the complainants are lawyers, they should be reported to the Bar Association for disciplinary actions.Petitioner has given dates,time and even duration of some of the interactions. He has also given the subject of these interactions; the SCOK petition. What makes you imagine it is unsubstantiated? Because he never copied you audio or video records of the meetings or logs?Still waiting for those named to deny these allegations.
Those are for JSC. If the petition goes all the way,we will be in a position to blurt about 'unsubstantiated legal conclusions without facts'. For now,we have bold allegations than many are busy crossing their gonads that they are false or unproven
So if I print a phony call log and make it look legit with times, locations and a narrative - no affidavists - then JSC should be expected to consider it?
How do you know there are no affidavits?How do you even respond to that crap. That is not even a petition because it makes unsubstantiated legal conclusions without the facts. For example, if you want to accuse a judge of "improper contact", you have to be very detailed in what was said or exchanged that supports the conclusion that it was "improper contact". If a judge meets an attorney in the corridor and exchanges pleasantries, and talk about the weather, or a football game, or the family or the wedding or death of a mutual friend or family member, is that "improper contact" ? The problem with with Jubilee is that their propaganda wing is ran by idiots. This petition does not meet the standards that would trigger a serious response and should be treated with the contempt they deserve. If the complainants are lawyers, they should be reported to the Bar Association for disciplinary actions.Petitioner has given dates,time and even duration of some of the interactions. He has also given the subject of these interactions; the SCOK petition. What makes you imagine it is unsubstantiated? Because he never copied you audio or video records of the meetings or logs?Still waiting for those named to deny these allegations.
Those are for JSC. If the petition goes all the way,we will be in a position to blurt about 'unsubstantiated legal conclusions without facts'. For now,we have bold allegations than many are busy crossing their gonads that they are false or unproven
So if I print a phony call log and make it look legit with times, locations and a narrative - no affidavists - then JSC should be expected to consider it?
We havent seen them. The petitions you've linked here certainly dont mention any attached affidavit. Until we do, Termi's point stands.How do you know there are no affidavits?How do you even respond to that crap. That is not even a petition because it makes unsubstantiated legal conclusions without the facts. For example, if you want to accuse a judge of "improper contact", you have to be very detailed in what was said or exchanged that supports the conclusion that it was "improper contact". If a judge meets an attorney in the corridor and exchanges pleasantries, and talk about the weather, or a football game, or the family or the wedding or death of a mutual friend or family member, is that "improper contact" ? The problem with with Jubilee is that their propaganda wing is ran by idiots. This petition does not meet the standards that would trigger a serious response and should be treated with the contempt they deserve. If the complainants are lawyers, they should be reported to the Bar Association for disciplinary actions.Petitioner has given dates,time and even duration of some of the interactions. He has also given the subject of these interactions; the SCOK petition. What makes you imagine it is unsubstantiated? Because he never copied you audio or video records of the meetings or logs?Still waiting for those named to deny these allegations.
Those are for JSC. If the petition goes all the way,we will be in a position to blurt about 'unsubstantiated legal conclusions without facts'. For now,we have bold allegations than many are busy crossing their gonads that they are false or unproven
So if I print a phony call log and make it look legit with times, locations and a narrative - no affidavists - then JSC should be expected to consider it?
Ok.How do you know there are no affidavits?How do you even respond to that crap. That is not even a petition because it makes unsubstantiated legal conclusions without the facts. For example, if you want to accuse a judge of "improper contact", you have to be very detailed in what was said or exchanged that supports the conclusion that it was "improper contact". If a judge meets an attorney in the corridor and exchanges pleasantries, and talk about the weather, or a football game, or the family or the wedding or death of a mutual friend or family member, is that "improper contact" ? The problem with with Jubilee is that their propaganda wing is ran by idiots. This petition does not meet the standards that would trigger a serious response and should be treated with the contempt they deserve. If the complainants are lawyers, they should be reported to the Bar Association for disciplinary actions.Petitioner has given dates,time and even duration of some of the interactions. He has also given the subject of these interactions; the SCOK petition. What makes you imagine it is unsubstantiated? Because he never copied you audio or video records of the meetings or logs?Still waiting for those named to deny these allegations.
Those are for JSC. If the petition goes all the way,we will be in a position to blurt about 'unsubstantiated legal conclusions without facts'. For now,we have bold allegations than many are busy crossing their gonads that they are false or unproven
So if I print a phony call log and make it look legit with times, locations and a narrative - no affidavists - then JSC should be expected to consider it?
Maybe because I haven't seen any. If they went to the trouble of releasing this tale, they might as well include the evidence.
I was wrong. Apparently Orengo already tweetted 5 hours ago: He has only one sister who is married in Meru and he hasnt spoken to her in 2 months. Anyone know how to post tweets here? Her name is Florence Adhiambo, not Margarate Orengo.Still waiting for those named to deny these allegations.This is a formal proceeding alleging many illegalities. You can bet they are all at their lawyers and will be responding with much more care than a tweet or two.
I have not spoken to her in years. Her name is Florence Adhiambo. Family used to call her Ndus coz she was petite and pretty. https://t.co/sSbrxv1ANK
— James Orengo (@orengo_james) September 19, 2017