Where does turncoat ekuru and his 3 way alliance want to be enjoined in the petition? Why could they not file their own petition? I think ekuru and his 40 thieves have been sent by jubilee to spy as well be the first one to jump out after court ruling to accept the verdict. NASA should keep a distance from these fools
Nasa still filing documents at the Supreme Court? #2017Scork pic.twitter.com/biMQwJmwP8
— -Dennis Itumbi, CBS (@OleItumbi) August 20, 2017
Supreme Court rules on the presidential petition that NASA is allowed to file more evidence until Friday. Cc @OleItumbi pic.twitter.com/n86zqaOSwK
— Kenya West (@KinyanBoy) August 21, 2017
Yesterday someone was wondering why NASWA was still filing stuff at SCOKmake the rules.Nasa still filing documents at the Supreme Court? #2017Scork pic.twitter.com/biMQwJmwP8
— -Dennis Itumbi, CBS (@OleItumbi) August 20, 2017
Maranga has responded. They have till Friday 25th to do soSupreme Court rules on the presidential petition that NASA is allowed to file more evidence until Friday. Cc @OleItumbi pic.twitter.com/n86zqaOSwK
— Kenya West (@KinyanBoy) August 21, 2017
Omorlo, am I wrong in my reading of this Maranga memo?
The petition
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2rMMQJiqMB8QTNpSjhDaFF0Yms
Supporting Affidavit
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2rMMQJiqMB8azUzUmU4VTl2QVk
Termie here it is. Had a mind just to drop you a PM. Too many baboons around here these days
http://www.judiciary.go.ke/portal/page/election-petitions
Termie here it is. Had a mind just to drop you a PM. Too many baboons around here these days
http://www.judiciary.go.ke/portal/page/election-petitions
Thanks. I have put this on sticky for the duration of the petition.
NASWA is praying for many things including an audit. How many of these can possibly be concluded in 7 days?
NASWA is simply making offers that can't be accepted. Non-acceptance is a sign of guilt
An examination of the logs can take less than 15 minutes.At the very least, the Court should grant this. It is puzzling to me why this should not be freely availed given this information is 100% the property of the public.
Wacha uthamaki.NASWA is praying for many things including an audit. How many of these can possibly be concluded in 7 days?
NASWA is simply making offers that can't be accepted. Non-acceptance is a sign of guilt
I think IEBC should release the logs - it's gonna be huge - but who cares?
Ultimately this is a petition - not carte blanche for NASA to ask anything -
They've made allegation - they need to proof it - not ask IEBC for proof.
But they are not asking IEBC for proof. They want public information. They will do their own proving. The fact of IEBC being a party to a petition does not convert this information into private property.
An examination of the logs can take less than 15 minutes.They are not asking for that but for ALL electronic equipments used in the election. Bro, that's over 40K KIEMS kits for starters.
Wacha uthamaki.NASWA is praying for many things including an audit. How many of these can possibly be concluded in 7 days?
NASWA is simply making offers that can't be accepted. Non-acceptance is a sign of guilt
They are asking for hardware? Hardware is tricky but the logs should be 100% availed. It's a mistake to lump them together as last time the court used this excuse to deny them everything including the electronic info in one fell swoop. A fair court would have done it point by point, denying the unreasonable and ordering the reasonable (they said it would take minutes to download). So doing the same thing this time with that precedent in mind is very careless in my view. They should ask for only easily available things, like the logs. When you seek prayers you should make it easy for the court to grant them, if they are not achievable the court will not grant them and as I said, last time the SCOK took advantage of the unreasonable requests in that list to deny all the prayers in a lump some. It was wrong but there is no use to repeat that this time too.
I mean asking for the hardware, I understand that to mean that things like computers should be physically brought to a center from all over the country etc. Last time the SCOK used that as an excuse to deny everything in the prayers including the easily accessible data like you point out. My point is that NASA should've left out any prayers asking for these things, perhaps I misunderstood vooke's post. They should totally and absolutely be allowed to access all the IT stuff.They are asking for hardware? Hardware is tricky but the logs should be 100% availed. It's a mistake to lump them together as last time the court used this excuse to deny them everything including the electronic info in one fell swoop. A fair court would have done it point by point, denying the unreasonable and ordering the reasonable (they said it would take minutes to download). So doing the same thing this time with that precedent in mind is very careless in my view. They should ask for only easily available things, like the logs. When you seek prayers you should make it easy for the court to grant them, if they are not achievable the court will not grant them and as I said, last time the SCOK took advantage of the unreasonable requests in that list to deny all the prayers in a lump some. It was wrong but there is no use to repeat that this time too.
Kadame,
It's not tricky at all. If Amazon wants to provide access to their most detailed info, they will create or provide a user account with relevant permissions. A key press, maybe a mouse click. There might be other reasons they can bring up to oppose it. When difficulty is used as an excuse, alarm bells should go off. It is a fake excuse.
Petition is not a forum to ask for public information. There is the public information act. IEBC have to be careful because NASA already tried to mimic IEBC logs by creating fake database on SQL Server and passing it as IEBC. If they release this info - what stop NASA from editing them next time - and inserting ABC. If Audit need to be done..it has to be contracted to international reputable company -- not every tom, dick and harry should see the innards of IEBC systems.I honestly keep wondering why you conflate the IEBC with courts. The IEBC is literally allowed no discretion in determining results. They are not there to apply their minds to facts and law and reason out a conclusion, This is up to the voter. Judgments/rulings/court orders are NOT the same things as the results of an election. What IEBC do and what courts do are so different I don't get why you keep making this argument about "trusting" IEBC and why you think you can draw parallels or analogies between these radically different types of institutions. They are not on the same planet, my friend, which is why courts are one of the three equal branches and IEBC are not. The only analogies to the judiciary in a limited sense are parliamentary and the executive. These are within their own spheres allowed substantial discretion to make decisions for all of us that are inherently political and affect us greatly.
Fact is NASA lostany form of respectability when they released fake SQL serve logs. They now want IEBC to help them build their case :)
In any case these are internal IEBC matters. IEBC remain Independent Constitution body. It's like Supreme court. You cannot ask for rough notes they made before the rulling.
Respect IEBC as constitutional institution. That is what Supreme Court will do. If you don't trust IEBC - pole - there is a limit to how much you'll be allowed to look.
In any case first make a "case" from the output. Demonstrate with 1 or 2 evidence that polling station X or Z results do not tally with what you have from your agents. That shouldn't be hard in any election your claims was systematically rigged. Start with Nyamira or Gusii. You had agents. They were present during the entire period. Show us your tallying center results -- and this time round - don't confuse Nyamira & Nairobi :D - Show us your own FORM 34As - each party agent were allowed to take a picture - after tallying and those pinned in classrooms.
Don't waste time going through IEBC forms 34A online looking at small mistake here and there. Section 38 of the Election Act is catch-all for all those minor mistakes otherwise we will never conduct election because human will make errors.
This election was CLEAN. Free, Fair and Credible.But they are not asking IEBC for proof. They want public information. They will do their own proving. The fact of IEBC being a party to a petition does not convert this information into private property.
They don't need to relocate the hardware though. The court can be taken to the hardware. I agree there appears to be no useful purpose that would be served. Maybe we get to know the make and models of the servers.So they are asking only for the servers and not things located all over the country?
They don't need to relocate the hardware though. The court can be taken to the hardware. I agree there appears to be no useful purpose that would be served. Maybe we get to know the make and models of the servers.So they are asking only for the servers and not things located all over the country?
E. RELIEFS SOUGHT IN THE PETITION[/b]
a. Immediately upon the filing of the Petition, the 1st Respondent do avail all the material including electronic documents, devices and equipment for the Presidential Election within 48 hours;
b. Immediately upon the filing of the Petition, the 1st Respondent do produce, avail and allow access for purposes of inspection of all the logs of any and all servers hosted by and/or on behalf of the 1st Respondent in respect of the Presidential Election within 48 hours;
3. NASA Petition: Results transmitted maintained a uniform constant % difference sequence & progression which is statistically impossible pic.twitter.com/6f9yJEFHvn
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
Omorlo,
I heard that there are changes since 2013 on presidential petition to the effect that the court will more heavily rely on written submissions and less on oral arguments before it. Is this so?
http://kenyalaw.org/kenyalawblog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/RevisedSupremeCourtPresidentialElectionPetitionRules2017.pdf
12. NASA Petition: Barcode/Stamps analysis of some Form 34As are either not registered/recognised/official or belong to other entities pic.twitter.com/FVTyKitDmK
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
10. NASA Petition: Interference &/or frustration of elections in relation to transfer & tallying of results due to security breach of KIEMS pic.twitter.com/0U9SlMlV6q
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
Opposition parties in Angola claim they don't know where Election Commission got the preliminary results announced today. #AngolaDecides
— Zenaida Machado (@zenaidamz) August 24, 2017
11. NASA Petition: The polling station was the final point of declaration of presidential results. PERIOD! pic.twitter.com/OYwUp6OlUd
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
8. NASA Petition:Form 34As & 34Bs were tailored to reflect computer generated results & not instructed by the primary data. pic.twitter.com/8PFnkClYsJ
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
11. NASA Petition: The polling station was the final point of declaration of presidential results. PERIOD! pic.twitter.com/OYwUp6OlUd
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
Look at a dimwit attempting to teach me subjudice rule which he refers to as "subjudist". I'm giving a summary of the petition NOT judging https://t.co/JF82ij1dO8
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
It was the same in 2013 hence the crippling of the case when the affidavits were tossed out on a technicality. the SCOK does not take in live testimony / witnesses or allow cross examinationsAsante ndugu.Omorlo,
I heard that there are changes since 2013 on presidential petition to the effect that the court will more heavily rely on written submissions and less on oral arguments before it. Is this so?
http://kenyalaw.org/kenyalawblog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/RevisedSupremeCourtPresidentialElectionPetitionRules2017.pdf
5.NASA Petition: KIEMS was compromised in 6 ways pic.twitter.com/peWdbYuqVB
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
7. NASA Petition: The fatal omission by @IEBCKenya pic.twitter.com/679iCIQOKZ
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
I told you that @dkmaraga can only preside after the end of Sabbath. pic.twitter.com/Fil7n4vGNs
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
Asante ndugu.
I saw a lawyer on NTV panel outside SCOK say this earlier today, in fact he said we will be surprised as there won't be much 'show' unlike 2013.
It was the same in 2013 hence the crippling of the case when the affidavits were tossed out on a technicality. the SCOK does not take in live testimony / witnesses or allow cross examinationsI remember when they prevented Raila's lawyer from even interrogating evidence that had already been submitted by the respondents themselves; I remember the refusal to allow a response based on a rule missing that was nonetheless standard procedure in the former and current Court of Appeal proceedings (talk about a technicality); Then Mutunga with his "lets all be relaxed and hug" rules ended up allocating Jubilee/IEBC tonnes more time and opportunities for rejoinders when he allowed all the lawyers equal chance to speak even if they were representing one client so that they basically swamped the CORD/Africog side; Not to mention the refusal to allow the downloads that would take 5 minutes, outright rudeness to the guy who tried to argue chapter 6 issues and all the rulings falling back on, hey, no time! Exact tactics the Moi courts had used to basically refuse to prosecute cases against govts. This is why I don't listen to anyone who claims that case was decided based on lack of evidence. After the 2nd or 3rd ruling I told my mom I already guessed what the main judgment would be and told her not to expect much more. And this time I am not even bothering to follow it as religiously as I did the last time.Omorlo,
I heard that there are changes since 2013 on presidential petition to the effect that the court will more heavily rely on written submissions and less on oral arguments before it. Is this so?
http://kenyalaw.org/kenyalawblog/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/RevisedSupremeCourtPresidentialElectionPetitionRules2017.pdf
I have to look at the rules again. It was my impression they had tried to avoid the issues of 2013 minus the judgment. Most supreme courts allow unlimited wriiten submissions and then allow a day or two of oral submissions then retire to consider and rule. It is not unheard of for judges to recall a lawyer to get some clarification etc. But then they are usually not time constrained.That was a very dumb provision we put in the Constitution. The terms should have been more general like reasonable time and instructions not to allow excessive amounts of time as would prejudice voters etc. It was the mother of all technicalities in 2013 and probably this time too, who knows. In the same document, you have the courts not being allowed to sacrifice substance on the altar of procedure but the SCOK made this an absolute.Asante ndugu.
I saw a lawyer on NTV panel outside SCOK say this earlier today, in fact he said we will be surprised as there won't be much 'show' unlike 2013.
That was a very dumb provision we put in the Constitution. The terms should have been more general like reasonable time and instructions not to allow excessive amounts of time as would prejudice voters etc. It was the mother of all technicalities in 2013 and probably this time too, who knows. In the same document, you have the courts not being allowed to sacrifice substance on the altar of procedure but the SCOK made this an absolute.
IEBC kassait immaculately buries NASA
http://www.judiciary.go.ke/portal/assets/filemanager_uploads/A%20-%20Presidential%20Petitions%202017/REPLYING%20AFFIDAVIT_IMMACULATE%20KASSAIT.pdf
In particular, based on a thirty-minute time interval(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DIAGrYTWsAIdHy3.jpg)
analysis of the data,
IEBC kassait immaculately buries NASA
http://www.judiciary.go.ke/portal/assets/filemanager_uploads/A%20-%20Presidential%20Petitions%202017/REPLYING%20AFFIDAVIT_IMMACULATE%20KASSAIT.pdf
1. Transposition Error
2. Mathematical Error
3. Clerical Error
4. Respondent put to strict proof thereof
20. NASA Petition: Curious case of ever increasing tallies in the portal & of ROs and POs summoned to adjust results after announcement pic.twitter.com/FHZ5T0hmrY
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
19. NASA Petition: Ungazetted Returning Officers signed forms 34B pic.twitter.com/LGvKmlCWBh
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
18. NASA Petition: IEBC -v- Maina Kiai & 5 Others, Civil Appeal No. 105 of 2017 affirmed the use of ICT for accuracy & integrity of results pic.twitter.com/P93R9mlLR8
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
17. NASA Petition: The barcodes of some Form 34Bs belong to World Health Organisations, Micro drivers & other strange entities pic.twitter.com/jeCnz5q9Xo
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
16. NASA Petition: Instances of petitioners’ votes reduced in 34A and/or 34B, up to 3 or 4 versions of Form 34Bs pic.twitter.com/1BvskZTvmD
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
15. NASA Petition:Final results wrongly declared pic.twitter.com/KDcnmhFgQ2
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
14. NASA Petition: 10056 polling stations sent text only results without form 34As even though some not affected by network coverage issues. pic.twitter.com/ZyBoRgxtRu
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
13. NASA Petition: Elections can stand only if conducted in accordance to the Constitution & national legislation (paragraph 14 & 17) pic.twitter.com/qZFoFdUEqv
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 25, 2017
Omollo, Kenya is a very special place. Whereas medical mri scans can be sent from San Francisco to India in a flash, we've somehow failed to send a scanned A4 sheet from nyando to bomas in nbo. Reminds me of tharaka nithi RO that took days "walking back to centre.
Lazy electoral thieves.
29. NASA Petition: 28 issues placed before the court for determination pic.twitter.com/hQgcA6qPD6
— Apollo Mboya, HSC (@MboyaApollo) August 26, 2017
28 issues; Is this a petition ? or legal review of our entire election management?
Read the Petition rules and heed the timetable. Uhuru, IEBC have also provided their own list. Do you think theirs is a petition or legal review of our entire election management? That is if you ever READ
The not so friendly mortician will be playing his inside man move by claiming to be a friend of the court.
As an aside, I'm actually enjoying the swahili stream instead of listening to those fake twangs and sheepish madowo looks.
Here is Uhuru response to Audit - which mirrors my thinking.
They are now on a wild goose chase trying to find evidence for
their allegations. In effect, having made baseless allegations, they are now saying “Give
us the evidence to make our case.” There is no basis at all for this in law. The Court
should not countenance the Petitioners’ attempts to use its processes on what can only be
termed a fishing expedition.
http://www.judiciary.go.ke/portal/assets/filemanager_uploads/A%20-%20Presidential%20Petitions%202017/uploads%20satu/3RD%20RESPONDENT%20SUBMISSIONS%20ON%20PETITIONERSG%20APPLICATION%20DATED%2024TH%20AUGUST%202017.pdf
Does the IEBC have the "evidence"?
We are satisfied that with this elaborate system, the electronic transmission of the already tabulated results from the polling stations, contained in the prescribed forms, is a critical way of safeguarding the accuracy of the outcome of elections, and do not see how the appellant or any of its officers can vary or even purport to verify those results, particularly when it is clear that, by Article 86 (d), section 2 of the Act and regulation 93(1), all election materials, including ballot boxes, ballot papers, counterfoils, information technology equipment for voting, seals and other materials, are to be retained in safe custody by the returning officers for a period of three years after the results of the elections have been declared, unless required in proceedings in court.
Failure to agree as NASA wants 28 issues addressed :) while Jubilee wants 5 and IEBC 2. Maraga and SCOK will give direction later today. NASA poorly pleaded petition is headed to the dustbin.
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/politics/Mention-of-Nasa-poll-petition-kicks-off/1064-4072030-d8mb2d/index.html
They don't have any evidence of rigging. IEBC is independent constitutional body charged with running elections. If you don't trust the information they've got - then you need to demonstrate with evidence that something is fishy - for judges to allow you to go to fishing evidence.
You don't start with a theory that election was rigged and then ask for evidence. It's not enough to say you don't trust IEBC or suspect the information. You need evidence otherwise legally the default position is for judges and everyone to trust IEBC as independent arbiter in matters election - whatever processes they put in place - even if they use exercise books as form 34. IEBC is not JUBILEE.
You start with evidence of your own - from your own agents/tallying centers.Does the IEBC have the "evidence"?
Obligation indeed.So why is NASA asking SCOK to order IEBC.IEBC are obligated to release form 34 to SCOk and to display them in online portal/pin them in polling station/give copies to agents.That is all.And they're done with their obligation.
PunditI am here to entertain myself with your type of nonsense.i am doing this in a bar as wait for Mayweather fight
If you think there is no case, then go to your bar and keep drinking until it is over.
Your behavior lends credence to reports (first averred by vooke ) that Jubilee would sabotage the court to ensure no case. As of yesterday I too have formed the opinion if Maraga refuses to read the judgment being written at state house, the court may not complete its job.
PunditI am here to entertain myself with your type of nonsense.i am doing this in a bar as wait for Mayweather fight
If you think there is no case, then go to your bar and keep drinking until it is over.
Your behavior lends credence to reports (first averred by vooke ) that Jubilee would sabotage the court to ensure no case. As of yesterday I too have formed the opinion if Maraga refuses to read the judgment being written at state house, the court may not complete its job.
Mortal friend already shitting on proceedings.
Orengo needs
-1hr to peruse through the 290 original forms 34B
-2hrs to peruse through the 40,863 original forms 34A
-Up to 18hrs to access the server logs,KIEMS logs,IP addresses...
-2 days to dig through Safran the supplier of KIEMS kits[/li][/list]
Lenaola wonders how the product of these exercises will get back to the court
Orengo says he will deliver them in soft
Here's the problem, the respondents must be given sufficient time to respond to this new evidence if at all. Then again, some of the requests are IMPOSSIBLE. How many personnel do you need to go through the WHOLE 40K forms in 2hrs under the court supervision?
Termie saidia Orengo bwana.... all he has to say is that NASA will appoint an IT expert to audit the systems..
Orengo needs
-1hr to peruse through the 290 original forms 34B
-2hrs to peruse through the 40,863 original forms 34A
-Up to 18hrs to access the server logs,KIEMS logs,IP addresses...
-2 days to dig through Safran the supplier of KIEMS kits[/li][/list]
Lenaola wonders how the product of these exercises will get back to the court
Orengo says he will deliver them in soft
Here's the problem, the respondents must be given sufficient time to respond to this new evidence if at all. Then again, some of the requests are IMPOSSIBLE. How many personnel do you need to go through the WHOLE 40K forms in 2hrs under the court supervision?
The case is so important that we should take as much time as it takes. Millions of lives depend on the outcome of this case.
Termie saidia Orengo bwana.... all he has to say is that NASA will appoint an IT expert to audit the systems..
Yes. They just need an account with read access to the data.
On a separate note, in a common law system, is there anything that prevents this court from extending the time they need to deal with this petition?
I watched latter parts of yesterday's status or whatever hearing and one thing was clear; the 2013 800+ page bullshiet that was discarded in 'technicality' made sense; the respondent need sufficient time to respond and denying them this prejudices them.
Ngatia was like they was served with some Affidavit at 1620H and by 1900H they had replied.
A lot of bullshiet will be thrown out today and it won't be the court's fault.
Thinking about the so called audit.
Supposing NASWA prayers was granted, its obvious the timelines they are asking are insufficient. But that aside, IEBC would equally need time to rebut whatever NASWA experts are saying. Looks like the most rational way is for a neutral forensic auditor to pore through IEBC servers. Sounds better rather than two sets of 'experts' arguing and educating the judges on Oracle. What if they fail to agree?
How practical is it to procure this auditor,set some agreeable scope and get a human-readable report in SCOK between now and Friday?
An IT audit is a quick examination of the code, inputs/outputs etc. They already know what they're looking for. We have analog judges, lawyers and thieving bastards trying to pretend that it will take weeks to examine the servers. Mara judge is expecting orengo to turn up lagging big computers into court. The pretense is shocking.
And pray who will do the audit? Orengo and his group of naive hackers who had some fake logs. IEBC have invested a lot in their systems to allow every tom, dick and harry to come - and inspect stuff. The only way IT audit can be done is by procuring a reputable firm - and that process will take time.
How this is important in the petition is not clear to me. You can proof interference without looking at the servers - by presenting evidence from your agents/observers/form 34s/ballot boxes - that will demonstrate how the "statistics or provisional results" were interfered with.
NASA of course have nothing - the whole case is make-belief - it comes down to combing through form 34s looking for any error /discrepancy - the same process they want to do on the server.An IT audit is a quick examination of the code, inputs/outputs etc. They already know what they're looking for. We have analog judges, lawyers and thieving bastards trying to pretend that it will take weeks to examine the servers. Mara judge is expecting orengo to turn up lagging big computers into court. The pretense is shocking.
Whoever does it is not Jubilee's nor the court's concern. If they settle on some river roadie "IT" consultants that's their prerogative. Looking at Muite's action, his knowledge is even more limited that NASA's yet his protestations amount to childishness. You know that all it takes is a read only access account to allow for an Algorithm to run remotely. This thing will take 2/3 hours max as the IEBC server is small... compared to say Nakumatt's...or even KCB's.
Orengo has put on record this funny resistance..... that's the smoking gun...
Bryan,
NASWA's request is a fishing expedition, even the slightly saner request on forms 34A. You have copies from IEBC, court copies as well, but instead of zeroing in on specifics, you are essentially claiming that IEBC forged EVERY form 34A copies, and to prove this you need to examine the ALL originals.
Why can't NASWA ask for a random sample? Any 4K forms 34A of their choice. Then compare the results on these with the court,or their copies?
Recall IEBC is not opposed to this exercise, but it needs court supervision,as well as Jubilee's as well.
If even a single form 34A is defective, then they may have a case. They can extrapolate the sample to the entire population and argue that primary results were recorded on defective documents and are unreliable.
Next would be a recount of these 4K ballot boxes,as well as examination of the relevant 4K KIEMS kits to confirm that's indeed there was real monkey biz.
All this starts with a single defective form 34A. But I doubt they have any single polling station they KNOW stuffing happened. So not knowing where to start they ask for everything! :lolz:
Bryan,
NASWA's request is a fishing expedition, even the slightly saner request on forms 34A. You have copies from IEBC, court copies as well, but instead of zeroing in on specifics, you are essentially claiming that IEBC forged EVERY form 34A copies, and to prove this you need to examine the ALL originals.
Why can't NASWA ask for a random sample? Any 4K forms 34A of their choice. Then compare the results on these with the court,or their copies?
Recall IEBC is not opposed to this exercise, but it needs court supervision,as well as Jubilee's as well.
If even a single form 34A is defective, then they may have a case. They can extrapolate the sample to the entire population and argue that primary results were recorded on defective documents and are unreliable.
Next would be a recount of these 4K ballot boxes,as well as examination of the relevant 4K KIEMS kits to confirm that's indeed there was real monkey biz.
All this starts with a single defective form 34A. But I doubt they have any single polling station they KNOW stuffing happened. So not knowing where to start they ask for everything! :lolz:
Even that read-only acess to the database would still compromise the system. IEBC should never give Jubilee or NASA any access to their systems unless they were sure it won't compromise their system. That would leave a court appointed system auditor - from say KPMG or Deloitte or PWC - but there is simply no time before 1st to do that.
The least would be for IEBC to print and redact log files before handing them over to Nasa. Basically the logs of when results were received - statistics/key-in data - and perhaps the meta-data of the scanned forms (when they were received and from which devices). But that is not what NASA is accepting - they are asking to inspect every nook and cranny of IEBC systems in the hope they'll find some skeleton.
When you talk about algorithm - explain to me how that would work - how would altering the key-in results - alter the manual voter counting & filling of form 34s in polling stations?
Let says the algorithm works by ensuring there is 54% -44%in total numbers streaming in. So results from 10 polling station stream in - Algorithm ensures 54% -44% is maintained by adding or substracting figures to Raila & Uhuru column - then how do you retroactively edit the forms? Before the results are key-in -form 34A is filled. That would mean calling the PO/Agent to destroy the previous one - and fill a fake one. Now that should be easy to proof in court.
1) You just need agents to say they counted the votes in XYZ polling stations - Raila figures were XYZ - but later on it turned to WQT.
2) You just need agents to show their own copy of the original form 34 - each agent get one.
3) They can also show scanned images on their phones or whatassup of the original forms.
4) We can re-open the polling station's ballot boxes and re-count.
5) Your agents/observers/media would have videos of results being counted?
If you do that in 10 polling stations - like in 2013 (which CORD was unable) - then we have prima facia evidence to look deeper.
This is crazy thought - because the algorithm would affect nearly every polling station - and would be so apparent there won't be need of a petition.
Your guys are plain crazy. Totally gone bonkers.
As of now - there is nothing. Therefore in 2hrs time I expect this application to be dismissed. Then we move on to the real petition which has already been DEMOLISHED by IEBC and Jubilee - leading to this attempt to get a second bite & make more crazy allegations.Whoever does it is not Jubilee's nor the court's concern. If they settle on some river roadie "IT" consultants that's their prerogative. Looking at Muite's action, his knowledge is even more limited that NASA's yet his protestations amount to childishness. You know that all it takes is a read only access account to allow for an Algorithm to run remotely. This thing will take 2/3 hours max as the IEBC server is small... compared to say Nakumatt's...or even KCB's.
Orengo has put on record this funny resistance..... that's the smoking gun...
Hastens or is meant to hasten declaration of results
On a totally different note. Why do you think IEBC have electronic transmission? Just your own understanding.
So Uhuru and Ruto rented "prayer mobs" to go sing and dance outside the ICC court.....yet they cannot stomach NASA supporters praying outside their home court?
Thieving bastards...
When was Jubilee given access to the servers?Even that read-only acess to the database would still compromise the system. IEBC should never give Jubilee or NASA any access to their systems unless they were sure it won't compromise their system. That would leave a court appointed system auditor - from say KPMG or Deloitte or PWC - but there is simply no time before 1st to do that.
The least would be for IEBC to print and redact log files before handing them over to Nasa. Basically the logs of when results were received - statistics/key-in data - and perhaps the meta-data of the scanned forms (when they were received and from which devices). But that is not what NASA is accepting - they are asking to inspect every nook and cranny of IEBC systems in the hope they'll find some skeleton.
When you talk about algorithm - explain to me how that would work - how would altering the key-in results - alter the manual voter counting & filling of form 34s in polling stations?
Let says the algorithm works by ensuring there is 54% -44%in total numbers streaming in. So results from 10 polling station stream in - Algorithm ensures 54% -44% is maintained by adding or substracting figures to Raila & Uhuru column - then how do you retroactively edit the forms? Before the results are key-in -form 34A is filled. That would mean calling the PO/Agent to destroy the previous one - and fill a fake one. Now that should be easy to proof in court.
1) You just need agents to say they counted the votes in XYZ polling stations - Raila figures were XYZ - but later on it turned to WQT.
2) You just need agents to show their own copy of the original form 34 - each agent get one.
3) They can also show scanned images on their phones or whatassup of the original forms.
4) We can re-open the polling station's ballot boxes and re-count.
5) Your agents/observers/media would have videos of results being counted?
If you do that in 10 polling stations - like in 2013 (which CORD was unable) - then we have prima facia evidence to look deeper.
This is crazy thought - because the algorithm would affect nearly every polling station - and would be so apparent there won't be need of a petition.
Your guys are plain crazy. Totally gone bonkers.
As of now - there is nothing. Therefore in 2hrs time I expect this application to be dismissed. Then we move on to the real petition which has already been DEMOLISHED by IEBC and Jubilee - leading to this attempt to get a second bite & make more crazy allegations.Whoever does it is not Jubilee's nor the court's concern. If they settle on some river roadie "IT" consultants that's their prerogative. Looking at Muite's action, his knowledge is even more limited that NASA's yet his protestations amount to childishness. You know that all it takes is a read only access account to allow for an Algorithm to run remotely. This thing will take 2/3 hours max as the IEBC server is small... compared to say Nakumatt's...or even KCB's.
Orengo has put on record this funny resistance..... that's the smoking gun...
Two things, IEBC granted Jubilee access to their servers enough for Jubilee to do damage, why won't they allow NASA? Secondly open source systems are strengthened by their openness which allows anyone and everyone to audit the code and this improving their credibility. Unless IEBC have invented some electoral software that is proprietary which they wish to keep private, they're acting like they have plenty to hide.
The algorithm I'm talking about is a penetrative audit tool, not the riggers' algorithm. A good audit bit of kit would be able to find the rigger's "worm" in a flash.
When was Jubilee given access to the servers?Even that read-only acess to the database would still compromise the system. IEBC should never give Jubilee or NASA any access to their systems unless they were sure it won't compromise their system. That would leave a court appointed system auditor - from say KPMG or Deloitte or PWC - but there is simply no time before 1st to do that.
The least would be for IEBC to print and redact log files before handing them over to Nasa. Basically the logs of when results were received - statistics/key-in data - and perhaps the meta-data of the scanned forms (when they were received and from which devices). But that is not what NASA is accepting - they are asking to inspect every nook and cranny of IEBC systems in the hope they'll find some skeleton.
When you talk about algorithm - explain to me how that would work - how would altering the key-in results - alter the manual voter counting & filling of form 34s in polling stations?
Let says the algorithm works by ensuring there is 54% -44%in total numbers streaming in. So results from 10 polling station stream in - Algorithm ensures 54% -44% is maintained by adding or substracting figures to Raila & Uhuru column - then how do you retroactively edit the forms? Before the results are key-in -form 34A is filled. That would mean calling the PO/Agent to destroy the previous one - and fill a fake one. Now that should be easy to proof in court.
1) You just need agents to say they counted the votes in XYZ polling stations - Raila figures were XYZ - but later on it turned to WQT.
2) You just need agents to show their own copy of the original form 34 - each agent get one.
3) They can also show scanned images on their phones or whatassup of the original forms.
4) We can re-open the polling station's ballot boxes and re-count.
5) Your agents/observers/media would have videos of results being counted?
If you do that in 10 polling stations - like in 2013 (which CORD was unable) - then we have prima facia evidence to look deeper.
This is crazy thought - because the algorithm would affect nearly every polling station - and would be so apparent there won't be need of a petition.
Your guys are plain crazy. Totally gone bonkers.
As of now - there is nothing. Therefore in 2hrs time I expect this application to be dismissed. Then we move on to the real petition which has already been DEMOLISHED by IEBC and Jubilee - leading to this attempt to get a second bite & make more crazy allegations.Whoever does it is not Jubilee's nor the court's concern. If they settle on some river roadie "IT" consultants that's their prerogative. Looking at Muite's action, his knowledge is even more limited that NASA's yet his protestations amount to childishness. You know that all it takes is a read only access account to allow for an Algorithm to run remotely. This thing will take 2/3 hours max as the IEBC server is small... compared to say Nakumatt's...or even KCB's.
Orengo has put on record this funny resistance..... that's the smoking gun...
Two things, IEBC granted Jubilee access to their servers enough for Jubilee to do damage, why won't they allow NASA? Secondly open source systems are strengthened by their openness which allows anyone and everyone to audit the code and this improving their credibility. Unless IEBC have invented some electoral software that is proprietary which they wish to keep private, they're acting like they have plenty to hide.
The algorithm I'm talking about is a penetrative audit tool, not the riggers' algorithm. A good audit bit of kit would be able to find the rigger's "worm" in a flash.
So Uhuru and Ruto rented "prayer mobs" to go sing and dance outside the ICC court.....yet they cannot stomach NASA supporters praying outside their home court?
Thieving bastards...
Police banned gatherings around that area back on Friday.
Yet NASWA in their typical provocation found occasion to go and hold prayers in the very place
.
Idiotic, and it reeks of desperation
Hastens or is meant to hasten declaration of results
On a totally different note. Why do you think IEBC have electronic transmission? Just your own understanding.
That clarifies a lot.
The motivation for the inclusion of electronic transmission in Kenya's elections is one. Prevention of fraud. Speed is a nice byproduct, but not the primary motivation.
That is why someone would want to know when, from where these scans were made, whether any scans were made at Bomas, and if they match with the documents IEBC presents. It's actually meant to be useful for verification. Right off the bat I know we don't have - at least publicly - the from where and when metadata.
Even that read-only acess to the database would still compromise the system. IEBC should never give Jubilee or NASA any access to their systems unless they were sure it won't compromise their system. That would leave a court appointed system auditor - from say KPMG or Deloitte or PWC - but there is simply no time before 1st to do that.
The least would be for IEBC to print and redact log files before handing them over to Nasa. Basically the logs of when results were received - statistics/key-in data - and perhaps the meta-data of the scanned forms (when they were received and from which devices). But that is not what NASA is accepting - they are asking to inspect every nook and cranny of IEBC systems in the hope they'll find some skeleton.
When you talk about algorithm - explain to me how that would work - how would altering the key-in results - alter the manual voter counting & filling of form 34s in polling stations?
Let says the algorithm works by ensuring there is 54% -44%in total numbers streaming in. So results from 10 polling station stream in - Algorithm ensures 54% -44% is maintained by adding or substracting figures to Raila & Uhuru column - then how do you retroactively edit the forms? Before the results are key-in -form 34A is filled. That would mean calling the PO/Agent to destroy the previous one - and fill a fake one. Now that should be easy to proof in court.
1) You just need agents to say they counted the votes in XYZ polling stations - Raila figures were XYZ - but later on it turned to WQT.
2) You just need agents to show their own copy of the original form 34 - each agent get one.
3) They can also show scanned images on their phones or whatassup of the original forms.
4) We can re-open the polling station's ballot boxes and re-count.
5) Your agents/observers/media would have videos of results being counted?
If you do that in 10 polling stations - like in 2013 (which CORD was unable) - then we have prima facia evidence to look deeper.
This is crazy thought - because the algorithm would affect nearly every polling station - and would be so apparent there won't be need of a petition.
Your guys are plain crazy. Totally gone bonkers.
As of now - there is nothing. Therefore in 2hrs time I expect this application to be dismissed. Then we move on to the real petition which has already been DEMOLISHED by IEBC and Jubilee - leading to this attempt to get a second bite & make more crazy allegations.Whoever does it is not Jubilee's nor the court's concern. If they settle on some river roadie "IT" consultants that's their prerogative. Looking at Muite's action, his knowledge is even more limited that NASA's yet his protestations amount to childishness. You know that all it takes is a read only access account to allow for an Algorithm to run remotely. This thing will take 2/3 hours max as the IEBC server is small... compared to say Nakumatt's...or even KCB's.
Orengo has put on record this funny resistance..... that's the smoking gun...
This guy PLO, is a contraction on heels. Chap spends the time inbetween elections preaching anti-corruption and other "saintly" things. Then bang, a case such as this one comes along and there he is representing possibly the most corrupt enterprise Kenya has ever seen.
It's a pity.
So you can fake the tables structures next time.If iebc had revealed every thing NASA wouldn't not passed fake sql server start up later logs.i don't get the why you cannot query the output. The root cause is irrelevant.What is relevant is the output n outcomes.You can demonstrate that we fed xyz to this opaque iebc systems and it gave us wyz instead qrt.That is arguments everyone understands.Otherwise what would audit or algorithm mean to a judge.Hacking cases are so technical you need 2yrs plus to prosecute.Its like that goldenburg or Wall Street derivatives.Plain time wasting diversion n political propaganda.You could see Maraga wondering if NASA wanted the servers brought to court.....if rigging happen..it should be manifest to any right thinking man.
I think that access was a ruse to cloak the confidential information they received in advance. The case is already set up.if access is granted you read conspiracies, if it is denied, you read even more conspiracies
The thieving bastards are planning to bury them under a mountain of data.
Twende kazi.
Muite is already shitting bricks. Chiloba swallowing hard. Folks are going to die over this...Flashing on screen, Murkomen, Duale and Chiloba were in shock. Raila smiling.
I do not expect the IEBC to comply. They will delay, dodge and waste time. I know it is a court supervised process but NASA is going to be overstretched and unable to follow up.First the Judiciary in one of 3 arms of government and its orders are bidding on all Kenyan Citizens.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITBJ4bXkAA9_2F.jpg)Muite is already shitting bricks. Chiloba swallowing hard. Folks are going to die over this...Flashing on screen, Murkomen, Duale and Chiloba were in shock. Raila smiling.
Body language after ruling
Let now wait for the big ALGORITHM written by Chirchir to be unveiled. I don't know SCOK are thinking but clearly they seem unfazed by the remaining time. They want NASA to have absolutely no excuse when their case come unstuck.Vifarsnga via kompyuta.
Also all the original form 34S are going to be scrutinized...let NASA borrow as many bar-code scanners as they will need.
After this process - let has not hear korti bandia tena.
Already Bryan is cooking some more excuses...
Vifarsnga via kompyuta.
I think the next excuse will be borrowed form Omorlo's post; IEBC dithered,delayed,falsified,obstructed bla de bla
Even that read-only acess to the database would still compromise the system. IEBC should never give Jubilee or NASA any access to their systems unless they were sure it won't compromise their system. That would leave a court appointed system auditor - from say KPMG or Deloitte or PWC - but there is simply no time before 1st to do that.
bla bla bla ...
Your guys are plain crazy. Totally gone bonkers.
As of now - there is nothing. Therefore in 2hrs time I expect this application to be dismissed. Then we move on to the real petition which has already been DEMOLISHED by IEBC and Jubilee - leading to this attempt to get a second bite & make more crazy allegations.
Let now wait for the big ALGORITHM written by Chirchir to be unveiled. I don't know SCOK are thinking but clearly they seem unfazed by the remaining time. They want NASA to have absolutely no excuse when their case come unstuck.
Also all the original form 34S are going to be scrutinized...let NASA borrow as many bar-code scanners as they will need.
After this process - let has not hear korti bandia tena.
Already Bryan is cooking some more excuses...
Let now wait for the big ALGORITHM written by Chirchir to be unveiled. I don't know SCOK are thinking but clearly they seem unfazed by the remaining time. They want NASA to have absolutely no excuse when their case come unstuck.
Also all the original form 34S are going to be scrutinized...let NASA borrow as many bar-code scanners as they will need.
After this process - let has not hear korti bandia tena.
Already Bryan is cooking some more excuses...
Let now wait for the big ALGORITHM written by Chirchir to be unveiled. I don't know SCOK are thinking but clearly they seem unfazed by the remaining time. They want NASA to have absolutely no excuse when their case come unstuck.
Also all the original form 34S are going to be scrutinized...let NASA borrow as many bar-code scanners as they will need.
After this process - let has not hear korti bandia tena.
Already Bryan is cooking some more excuses...
What excuses? NASA are not asking for information that they do not already have bwana. The audit will produce results. Penetrative testing of systems is highly automated. All these analog and pretend analog (looking at yoy RvP) pundits should sit back and relax whilst NASA lays out the crime that you've collectively committed and defended.
40 days are up.
As you can see, everything you say seems to slap you back in your face. My advice is to spare us the rationalization and public therapy and confine it to your meetings with Uthamaki.
Your continued denial of the existence of an algorithm continues to strengthen my belief you are unqualified in matters IT. Just like a doctor does not need to necessarily undertake invasive tests - biopsy, blood tests, MRC scans etc - to diagnose certain illnesses relying instead on clinical symptoms, so can a properly qualified IT professional. His examination of the output and general "behavior" should be sufficient.
Muite is already shitting bricks. Chiloba swallowing hard. Folks are going to die over this...hbFlashing on screen, Murkomen, Duale and Chiloba were in shock. Raila smiling.
Body language after ruling
I think that access was a ruse to cloak the confidential information they received in advance. The case is already set up.if access is granted you read conspiracies, if it is denied, you read even more conspiracies
The thieving bastards are planning to bury them under a mountain of data.
Twende kazi.
Orangi is referring to Jubilee forms instead of IEBC Forms
Orengo is straining to steer away from quantitative and onto qualitative.
If numbers add up, if audit proves no algorithm, if scrutiny of forms 34A and 34B turn up nothing, we will stick with transmission failures bla bla
Otiende brings in the bit that forced IEBC to claim that the streamed "results" were statistics and not the results...
Otiende brings in the bit that forced IEBC to claim that the streamed "results" were statistics and not the results...
bryan275,
Am I the only one shocked at the level of mathematical illiteracy this guy shows? He referred to "x" as "times".
Otiende: on 14th August, IEBC was unable to furnish us with 11K forms 34A
Conclusion
IEBC did not have 11K forms 34A when they declared the results
IEBC rejoinder
We had them but we did not give them to you
Why is Amolo dwelling in the portal?
Portal was meant to be 34As but there was always going to be errors. IEBC anticipated and even reported on this.
Unless I'm missing something, he's wasting time
Omokeni (sp) takes over.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITjsBpXgAMnUpb.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITjsBuXkAArcBE.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITjsBrXYAA786L.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITjsBuW4AAprGQ.jpg)
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Which part of the constitution makes that distinction?
Edit:Murkomen deleted the tweet. Probably realized there is no distinction between state officer and public officer.
This court should come down hard on election offenses.
I was expecting NASA to prove that RAO won, UK did not get 50%+1 or indicate that irregularities were to the extent of nullifying the results
I was expecting NASA to prove that RAO won, UK did not get 50%+1 or indicate that irregularities were to the extent of nullifying the results
Yep but numbers ain't none of themI was expecting NASA to prove that RAO won, UK did not get 50%+1 or indicate that irregularities were to the extent of nullifying the results
To borrow one of kichwa's favorite phrases. There are many ways of skinning a cat.
I was expecting NASA to prove that RAO won, UK did not get 50%+1 or indicate that irregularities were to the extent of nullifying the results
I was expecting NASA to prove that RAO won, UK did not get 50%+1 or indicate that irregularities were to the extent of nullifying the results
Their position is that the elections are so tainted as to not bother on the 50+1% argument
Yep but numbers ain't none of themI was expecting NASA to prove that RAO won, UK did not get 50%+1 or indicate that irregularities were to the extent of nullifying the results
To borrow one of kichwa's favorite phrases. There are many ways of skinning a cat.
Raila looking really sad; hopefully the judges will be sympathetic :)
Maraga questioning Nyamodi on what they are calling statistics. Nyamodi say this was old provisional systems that they didn't discard.
Nyamodi says they were not provisional or not provisional results :)
Nyamondi; NASWA is a moving target from hacking, to 'actual results' to the the elections being so poorly managed that no results are reliable coming from it
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITjsBpXgAMnUpb.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITjsBuXkAArcBE.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITjsBrXYAA786L.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITjsBuW4AAprGQ.jpg)
Pundit
How many courts have you attended? :D :D :D
Variances were about 80K not NASWA's 482K
IEBC Lawyer: NOBODY contests elections nor recording or declaration of results on forms 34A
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITjsBpXgAMnUpb.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITjsBuXkAArcBE.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITjsBrXYAA786L.jpg)(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DITjsBuW4AAprGQ.jpg)
Omollo,
Are they currently working on this? Do you know?
NASWA resisted scrutinizing forms 34B, they walked away. Haiya
Muite ;6 minutes; When audit is done by tomorrow - it will shows elections were elected free, fair and credible. IEBC will be vindicted tomorrow. NASA tafuta shimo ingine ndio Ngatia aanze kazi :)
Just share the information you have here right now. We won't ask how you gained extra judicial access to the servers
Yes we know about qualitative and quantitative, but the fact that NASWA is totally MUTE on quantities in court, yet MOST vocal about it outside tells it all; there was no parallel tallying, no stolen votes,no stuffed ballot, just typical NASWA bullshiet to excite rioters
Mambo yao inaisha kesho after registar of the SCOK turn in her report - that 1) all forms 34s are genuine 2) the servers are kosher - actually virgin -un-penetrated.
Even that read-only acess to the database would still compromise the system. IEBC should never give Jubilee or NASA any access to their systems ...
[nyef...nyef ... nyef]
Your guys are plain crazy. Totally gone bonkers.
As of now - there is nothing. Therefore in 2hrs time I expect this application to be dismissed. Then we move on to the real petition which has already been DEMOLISHED by IEBC and Jubilee - leading to this attempt to get a second bite & make more crazy allegations.
Yes we know about qualitative and quantitative, but the fact that NASWA is totally MUTE on quantities in court, yet MOST vocal about it outside tells it all; there was no parallel tallying, no stolen votes,no stuffed ballot, just typical NASWA bullshiet to excite rioters
What I learned from the rejoinder. PLO uses big words whose meanings he does not even understand. He called the graph of the correlation of the candidate's results Pythagoras Theorem.The linear function was worse than pythogras theorem which is just one of popular maths theorem out there.PLO buried this case because it's was just PR exercises by NASA.
Mambo yao inaisha kesho after registar of the SCOK turn in her report - that 1) all forms 34s are genuine 2) the servers are kosher - actually virgin -un-penetrated.
Even that read-only acess to the database would still compromise the system. IEBC should never give Jubilee or NASA any access to their systems ...[/quote]
[nyef...nyef ... nyef]
Your guys are plain crazy. Totally gone bonkers.
As of now - there is nothing. Therefore in 2hrs time I expect this application to be dismissed. Then we move on to the real petition which has already been DEMOLISHED by IEBC and Jubilee - leading to this attempt to get a second bite & make more crazy allegations.
What I learned from the rejoinder. PLO uses big words whose meanings he does not even understand. He called the graph of the correlation of the candidate's results Pythagoras Theorem.The linear function was worse than pythogras theorem which is just one of popular maths theorem out there.PLO buried this case because it's was just PR exercises by NASA.
What I learned from the rejoinder. PLO uses big words whose meanings he does not even understand. He called the graph of the correlation of the candidate's results Pythagoras Theorem.
What I learned from the rejoinder. PLO uses big words whose meanings he does not even understand. He called the graph of the correlation of the candidate's results Pythagoras Theorem.
You have to admit that "pythagoras" sounds very twisted indeed. Try it the next time you are in an an argument with someone: "That is surely the most pythagoran I ever heard".
Pythagoras was a figure of speech, an English version of DPORK's Kizungu mingi. Taking an idiom home from a legal battle is waving a white flag. It must really be humbling watching hours of NASWA submissions hoping for some 'bombshell', only to watch their bullshiet dismantled by lawyers of dubious legal mien
Pythagoras was a figure of speech, an English version of DPORK's Kizungu mingi. Taking an idiom home from a legal battle is waving a white flag. It must really be humbling watching hours of NASWA submissions hoping for some 'bombshell', only to watch their bullshiet dismantled by lawyers of dubious legal mien
Pythagoras was a figure of speech, an English version of DPORK's Kizungu mingi. Taking an idiom home from a legal battle is waving a white flag. It must really be humbling watching hours of NASWA submissions hoping for some 'bombshell', only to watch their bullshiet dismantled by lawyers of dubious legal mien
Not so much humbling as entertaining. I take it you feel like you lost big time because of the server ruling. They might still find nothing. Hopefully that keeps you going. For me, it's exciting because I will learn something either way. Don't try to fight facts. It's not healthy.
Me? I know this petition is going nowhere for example, even though I wish it would succeed and force some useful behavior on our electoral process. But if it doesn't, I won't pretend it has. The fact is while PLO made a fool of himself, I have no reason to doubt he impressed some of us.
Me too, I did not get the joke/punchline on Poor Pythagoras. I think I'm dumb.Pythagoras was a figure of speech, an English version of DPORK's Kizungu mingi. Taking an idiom home from a legal battle is waving a white flag. It must really be humbling watching hours of NASWA submissions hoping for some 'bombshell', only to watch their bullshiet dismantled by lawyers of dubious legal mien
I have no interest in the outcome of the legal fisticuffs, and, therefore, no flag to wave. I just find this particular bit highly amusing, especially when people are impressed with a whole bunch of gobbledygook. And the notions of "figure of speech" and "idiom" only make things more amusing.
plo delivered the best closing submission so far.That was his job the rest having dealt with the law and the facts of the case.Next will be Ngatia to shine. BTW Amollo pythogras nonsense is part of the in admissable evidence that were expunged.
All that is nonsense and does not impress seasoned judges. At this point the judges are very focused and I believe they know exactly what they want. There are two dwelling theories here; whether elections are about the process or merely numbers at the end like the party nominations. I think this time around the court must pay attention to the process because the constitution seems to do so. A lot of people are being disillusioned by this lack of attention to the process and its encouraging the thieves because they believe they can steal with impunity. Jubilites argument is that the huge numbers cannot be overturned regardless of how they were achieved. This court must reject that argument. The end should never justify the means.plo delivered the best closing submission so far.That was his job the rest having dealt with the law and the facts of the case.Next will be Ngatia to shine. BTW Amollo pythogras nonsense is part of the in admissable evidence that were expunged.
All that is nonsense and does not impress seasoned judges. At this point the judges are very focused and I believe they know exactly what they want. There are two dwelling theories here; whether elections are about the process or merely numbers at the end like the party nominations. I think this time around the court must pay attention to the process because the constitution seems to do so. A lot of people are being disillusioned by this lack of attention to the process and its encouraging the thieves because they believe they can steal with impunity. Jubilites argument is that the huge numbers cannot be overturned regardless of how they were achieved. This court must reject that argument. The end should never justify the means.
True.
NASWA's job is to prove that the process what irredeemably flawed that any output is unreliable.
But honestly, even here they are struggling
1. The strongest claim; ungazetted polling station has been debunked
2. 'ungazetted' returning/presiding officers are nothing but dropouts
3. Forms 34A and B are yet to be yet again scrutinized.
I'm sure the question of 'statistics' and 'data' will haunt Jubilee.
Another is declaration of results without all forms 34A. The argument that Bomas was not bound to gather all forms 34A since they had received forms 34B is a minefield and I'm keen on hearing how this pans out.
If constituency results are final, should the commissioners demand sight of forms 34A first before declaring?
Is it back.
IEBC excuses of Europe needing to wake up and configure read only users donesnt wash. They clearly are stalling
Those are partisan arguments. The court is the bench is finder of facts,
Mr Ngatia is being mischievous, the issue is that documents were forged. And the issue was not the filling in and casting ballots. The issue is is that the results were doctored.
I am disappointed in Ngatia
The @IEBCKenya should #ObeyCourtOrders. The truth is there in the servers, not the public spectacles we've been treated to in SC. pic.twitter.com/z5wvhQTiBV
— The ODM Party (@TheODMparty) August 29, 2017
Mr Ngatia is being mischievous, the issue is that documents were forged. And the issue was not the filling in and casting ballots. The issue is is that the results were doctored.
I am disappointed in Ngatia
He is getting there. Elections start with voting
Mr Ngatia is being mischievous, the issue is that documents were forged. And the issue was not the filling in and casting ballots. The issue is is that the results were doctored.
I am disappointed in Ngatia
He is getting there. Elections start with voting
I actually like the fact that he's re-inforcing the fact that the votes were cast and tallied correctly at source. The question would be if those tallies (based on the real form 34As) match the declared results and tally at BOMAS.
Ngatia is fighting hard to move away from transmission (where the mischief occured) to the conduct of the basic election process of acquiring/marking/casting and counting ballots at the polling station.
I actually like the fact that he's re-inforcing the fact that the votes were cast and tallied correctly at source. The question would be if those tallies (based on the real form 34As) match the declared results and tally at BOMAS.
Ngatia is fighting hard to move away from transmission (where the mischief occured) to the conduct of the basic election process of acquiring/marking/casting and counting ballots at the polling station.
Let me waste my precious time to reply - the original FORM 34S are currently being verified by everyone led by Court RegistarI actually like the fact that he's re-inforcing the fact that the votes were cast and tallied correctly at source. The question would be if those tallies (based on the real form 34As) match the declared results and tally at BOMAS.
Ngatia is fighting hard to move away from transmission (where the mischief occured) to the conduct of the basic election process of acquiring/marking/casting and counting ballots at the polling station.
All parties to the petition are currently accessing the IEBC servers at Anniversary Towers. #PresidentialPetitionKe pic.twitter.com/Xzw9NLU47m
— IEBC (@IEBCKenya) August 29, 2017
Kinyanjui; With his accent getting on the way it hard to understand.
Who is paying this Harrison Kinyanjui guy? I am not sure it makes sense for Wainaina to fork out money to him to enjoin the petition so he can oppose it.
We now turn our attention to amendments to the Regulations, which we alluded to earlier. It will be recalled that the High Court annulled Section 39(2) and (3) of the Act and regulations 83(2) and 87(2)(c) on 7th April, 2017. One would have expected the concerned institutions, including the appellant, to either comply with the determination of the court or if aggrieved, to challenge it in this Court as the appellant did within two weeks on 24th April 2017. Instead, 14 days following the delivery of the judgment impugned in this appeal, the appellant issued a gazette supplement, being Legal Notice No. 72 of 21st April, 2017, making drastic amendments to the Elections (General) Regulations 2012, whose effect was clearly to render impotent and circumvent the declaration by the High Court of the inconsistency with the Constitution of section 39(2) and (3) of the Act and regulations 83(2) and 87(2)(c). For instance, Form 34 which was headed
“DECLARATION OF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION RESULTS AT A POLLING STATION” has been replaced by two forms, Form 34A and 34B, the former now headed “PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION RESULTS AT THE POLLING STATION” and the latter “COLLATION OF PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION RESULTS AT THE CONSTITUENCY TALLYING CENTRE”. Form 34C is the one to be used in place of Form 37 for the final declaration of the result of election of the President at the national tallying centre. The new regulation 87 specifies that upon receipt of Form 34A from the constituency returning officers the Chairperson of the appellant shall “verify the results against Forms 34A and 34B received from the constituency returning officer at the national tallying centre”.
The controversial regulations 83(2) and 87(2) were not affected by the amendments, and the object is not difficult to see. The High Court having found those regulations to be inconsistent with the Constitution, it was in bad faith for the appellant to re-enact them while pursuing this appeal.
It is our firm position that the purpose for which section 39(2) and (3) of the Act and regulations 83(2) and 87(2)(c) were promulgated or made have the effect of infringing constitutional principles of transparency, impartiality, neutrality, efficiency, accuracy and accountability.
To suggest that there is some law that empowers the chairperson of the appellant, as an individual to alone correct, vary, confirm, alter, modify or adjust the results electronically transmitted to the national tallying centre from the constituency tallying centres, is to donate an illegitimate power. Such a suggestion would introduce opaqueness and arbitrariness to the electoral process - the very mischief the Constitution seeks to remedy. We reiterate the words of the learned Judges of the Supreme Court
NASA need to rule Maina Kia rulling again. They asked for it - they got it. Chebukati kazi yake ni rahisi.
http://kenyalaw.org/caselaw/cases/view/137601/
The chairperson on the other hand is appointed under Article 250 of the Constitution. The chairperson therefore cannot be, and is not, the appellant. It is envisaged in Article 86 that for the purpose of conducting an election the appellant will be represented at the polling stations and constituency tallying centres by the presiding officers, and the returning officers, respectively, who as we have seen, are appointed by the appellant. They are in every respect employees of the appellant and its agents in the eyes of the law. It is as hypocritical as it is incongruous for the appellant to doubt the competency, proficiency and honesty of its own staff as the reason for the need to “verify” the results to ensure they are not tampered with. The appellant has the opportunity, indeed a duty, to vet all its prospective employees to ensure they pass the integrity test before engaging them. Members and employees of the appellant are bound by a code of conduct. In any case apart from the offences related to voting, or any other election-related offences committed by members or employees of the appellant created under the Election Offences Act, section 30 of the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission Act makes it an offence for a member or employee of the appellant, to knowingly subvert the process of free and fair elections. A person who is convicted of an election-offence is not eligible to hold public office for a period of ten years following the conviction. As we have indicated, there are several mechanisms that the appellant can and must deploy to eradicate malfeasance on the part of its staff and officers.
NASA 32 lawyers never read Maina Kia rulling.Plain English version for 32 lawyers.
In short after High court rulling which Maina Kiai won - IEBC went and changed the regulation to what NASA now wants.
The new regulation 87 specifies that upon receipt of Form 34A from the constituency returning officers the Chairperson of the appellant shall “verify the results against Forms 34A and 34B received from the constituency returning officer at the national tallying centre”.
The Court of Appeal - found what NASA is now asking to be so odius - they said IEBC was acting in bad faith.
They clarified - Chebukati has nothing like verfying - his job is to tally.
In short, it does not matter if ROs injure figures out of their rear, once they declare them, only a petition can overturn them.
In this case, why isn't NASWA pursuing a recount in at least a sample of these 11K stations to prove tampering. Isn't what Pheroze arguing known as misapprehension?
Who is paying this Harrison Kinyanjui guy? I am not sure it makes sense for Wainaina to fork out money to him to enjoin the petition so he can oppose it.
Muite is telling the cops to ignore the dead body in the car and focus on the speeding violation.
There are laws of admitting evidence. It's too late to admit new documents. What will be discussed is the registar report. NASA just have to respect the basic of rules.Muite is telling the cops to ignore the dead body in the car and focus on the speeding violation.
I know. Technicalities.
Muite: no regulation about security features
what a weak argument. If IEBC decided on their own decided to use security features to adhere with the constitutional and statutory requirements of secure and verifiability of the elections. They cannot then turn around and say that there is no regulation for it.
what a weak argument. If IEBC decided on their own decided to use security features to adhere with the constitutional and statutory requirements of secure and verifiability of the elections. They cannot then turn around and say that there is no regulation for it.Muite: no regulation about security features
That is fruits of Maina Kiai rulling that emasculated Chebukati. If there is any issues - it's for court to go to ROs and POs.what a weak argument. If IEBC decided on their own decided to use security features to adhere with the constitutional and statutory requirements of secure and verifiability of the elections. They cannot then turn around and say that there is no regulation for it.
RO's and PO's are part of the commission.That is fruits of Maina Kiai rulling that emasculated Chebukati. If there is any issues - it's for court to go to ROs and POs.what a weak argument. If IEBC decided on their own decided to use security features to adhere with the constitutional and statutory requirements of secure and verifiability of the elections. They cannot then turn around and say that there is no regulation for it.
Correct. What they do at the polling station and Constituency is final....needs no verification
Right. The court can determine the extend of errors - if marginal - no problem - but RO or POS is criminal responsible.Correct. What they do at the polling station and Constituency is final....needs no verification
They may be criminally responsible but the Commission is responsible for their criminal actions. For example, if a delivery truck for Daily Nonsense is driving drunk and kills someone during the cause of delivery, he maybe charged criminally but DN is responsible for the civil liabilities.
Right. The court can determine the extend of errors - if marginal - no problem - but RO or POS is criminal responsible.Correct. What they do at the polling station and Constituency is final....needs no verification
There are two arguments being advanced here, the "numbers" argument and the "process" argument. If the court goes with the numbers argument then Jubilee wins but if the court goes with process argument then NASA wins. The court may also adopt a hybrid, weigh it and rule for either side with a lot of recommendations for reform. The bottom line is that NASA's claims can no longer be taken lightly. They have proven to their supporters that they were robbed and that the system is rigged to produce numbers for Jubilee and the ruling class.Right. The court can determine the extend of errors - if marginal - no problem - but RO or POS is criminal responsible.Correct. What they do at the polling station and Constituency is final....needs no verification
There are two arguments being advanced here, the "numbers" argument and the "process" argument. If the court goes with the numbers argument then Jubilee wins but if the court goes with process argument then NASA wins. The court may also adopt a hybrid, weigh it and rule for either side with a lot of recommendations for reform. The bottom line is that NASA's claims can no longer be taken lightly. They have proven to their supporters that they were robbed and that the system is rigged to produce numbers for Jubilee and the ruling class.
The law requires them to consider both - any process or mathematical error & it's effect - on fair,free and credible election. Section 38 of Election Act is catch-all that you cannot invalidate results just coz of procedural lapses. So numbers are very important and NASA has 1.5M votes mountain to climb. The judges can knock down so many votes as invalid but still that huge gap will be staring back at them.Process (free and fair election in terms of voting and tallying) and product (IEBC announcement of winner, ELOG ululations, Pundit calls to concede) matter equally.There are two arguments being advanced here, the "numbers" argument and the "process" argument. If the court goes with the numbers argument then Jubilee wins but if the court goes with process argument then NASA wins. The court may also adopt a hybrid, weigh it and rule for either side with a lot of recommendations for reform. The bottom line is that NASA's claims can no longer be taken lightly. They have proven to their supporters that they were robbed and that the system is rigged to produce numbers for Jubilee and the ruling class.
There are two arguments being advanced here, the "numbers" argument and the "process" argument. If the court goes with the numbers argument then Jubilee wins but if the court goes with process argument then NASA wins. The court may also adopt a hybrid, weigh it and rule for either side with a lot of recommendations for reform. The bottom line is that NASA's claims can no longer be taken lightly. They have proven to their supporters that they were robbed and that the system is rigged to produce numbers for Jubilee and the ruling class.Right. The court can determine the extend of errors - if marginal - no problem - but RO or POS is criminal responsible.Correct. What they do at the polling station and Constituency is final....needs no verification
The law requires them to consider both - any process or mathematical error & it's effect - on fair,free and credible election. Section 38 of Election Act is catch-all that you cannot invalidate results just coz of procedural lapses. So numbers are very important and NASA has 1.5M votes mountain to climb. The judges can knock down so many votes as invalid but still that huge gap will be staring back at them.There are two arguments being advanced here, the "numbers" argument and the "process" argument. If the court goes with the numbers argument then Jubilee wins but if the court goes with process argument then NASA wins. The court may also adopt a hybrid, weigh it and rule for either side with a lot of recommendations for reform. The bottom line is that NASA's claims can no longer be taken lightly. They have proven to their supporters that they were robbed and that the system is rigged to produce numbers for Jubilee and the ruling class.
You have to demonstrate the consquence of any processes gaps or violation.Forgetting to stamp or sign here doesn't make process unfair and worse when effect of the results are such that it benefit the petitioner.
You have to demonstrate the consquence of any processes gaps or violation.Forgetting to stamp or sign here doesn't make process unfair and worse when effect of the results are such that it benefit the petitioner.
The first part is correct. One would indeed also have to show that any errors or mischief would have been sufficient to give a different outcome.
The second part is hopelessly confused. "Stamps" and "signatures" do not matter a great deal, and not just in elections. At the simplest level that is so because proc
It is not easy to determine whether a "stamp"/"signature" was simply "forgotten" or "not available" (as would be the case with deliberate mischief). So, without being able to look into minds, the default assumption must be the latter, and anything not properly "stamped" or "signed" must be invalidated.
Of course, forgeries or any other form of fraud would make the elections-process unfair.
ICT report by JUDICIARY on my hands! Tough times for IEBC and Jubilee. The findings am looking at are explosive
— Lord Abraham Mutai (@ItsMutai) August 30, 2017
Update: NASA is filing a case for opening the server which may reveal the true result of the 8th August Election.
— Lord Abraham Mutai (@ItsMutai) August 30, 2017
Server logs that actually tampered with this elections. And it shall come to pass that those who stole the election can't hide anymore! pic.twitter.com/DLYC1jqlRl
— Lord Abraham Mutai (@ItsMutai) August 30, 2017
While NASWA hounds ululated and claimed 33K forms were defective, only 4K forms were scrutinized.
(https://s26.postimg.org/90u82h0zt/IMG_2073.jpg)
Paul Muite likens IEBC server firewall to "Mtego wa Panya" (rat trap) pic.twitter.com/W37qHjgm5p
— Nation Africa (@NationAfrica) August 31, 2017
indeed unchartered territory..the next two months will be truly interesting.
Unbelievable, Unremarkable, but Undeniable
A world's first
Njoki and Ojwang should join kamwana's private legal team. The shifta should go look after camels. NASA comes out of this with the momentum - they better take advantage of it.
Does this ruling bring into contention Club 54%? Governors etc? I think so...
Njoki and Ojwang should join kamwana's private legal team. The shifta should go look after camels. NASA comes out of this with the momentum - they better take advantage of it.
Njoki's decision is a self preserving one. Very personal, and understandable..... we all want to have long and full lives...
Does this ruling bring into contention Club 54%? Governors etc? I think so...Don't see how it can be avoided.
Does this ruling bring into contention Club 54%? Governors etc? I think so...
Not sure until we see their reasoning. My feeling is the judges could not piece together IEBC's explanations of the gaps - missing forms at declaration - in an innocent way. That could open the door to similar down ballot petitions.
The people I want to petition arw LEGISLATORS! Mps and senetors. We cannot hsve a situation where one side not just wins all branches but has a SUPER majority. Even if Raila wins I dont wsnt him to have a super majority. Thats bad for us to hand one side the power to literally throw away the constitution we worked to creatw for 20 years. How can we be that callous with our future? I hope we have a repeat of parliamentary elections more than anything. Thats my prayer.Does this ruling bring into contention Club 54%? Governors etc? I think so...
Not sure until we see their reasoning. My feeling is the judges could not piece together IEBC's explanations of the gaps - missing forms at declaration - in an innocent way. That could open the door to similar down ballot petitions.
Plus the Governors have 28 days to petition so there's still time. This is a good thing. Cleanse the house off of all those thieving bastards that squeaked through by virtue of this humongous theft.
The people I want to petition arw LEGISLATORS! Mps and senetors. We cannot hsve a situation where one side not just wins all branches but has a SUPER majority. Even if Raila wins I dont wsnt him to have a super majority. Thats bad for us to hand one side the power to literally throw away the constitution we worked to creatw for 20 years. How can we be that callous with our future? I hope we have a repeat of parliamentary elections more than anything. Thats my prayer.Does this ruling bring into contention Club 54%? Governors etc? I think so...
Not sure until we see their reasoning. My feeling is the judges could not piece together IEBC's explanations of the gaps - missing forms at declaration - in an innocent way. That could open the door to similar down ballot petitions.
Plus the Governors have 28 days to petition so there's still time. This is a good thing. Cleanse the house off of all those thieving bastards that squeaked through by virtue of this humongous theft.
Ojwang seems to be just glad to make big bucks - no principles, not even uthamakism; a shallow judge.
Unfounded accusation. Ojwang is one of the most brilliant & senior judges in SCOK. He is a Luo and probably felt the most pressure but those who know Prof Ojwang knows he only bows with facts. Ojwang was teaching law at UON before your were in diapers. If Wanjala or Lenaola had ruled against you - you'd have gone to make unwarranted accusation about them.Yep. Open season for conspiracy theoristsOjwang seems to be just glad to make big bucks - no principles, not even uthamakism; a shallow judge.
Unfounded accusation. Ojwang is one of the most brilliant & senior judges in SCOK. He is a Luo and probably felt the most pressure but those who know Prof Ojwang knows he only bows with facts. Ojwang was teaching law at UON before your were in diapers. If Wanjala or Lenaola had ruled against you - you'd have gone to make unwarranted accusation about them.Ojwang seems to be just glad to make big bucks - no principles, not even uthamakism; a shallow judge.
Njoki and Ojwang should join kamwana's private legal team. The shifta should go look after camels. NASA comes out of this with the momentum - they better take advantage of it.
Does this ruling bring into contention Club 54%? Governors etc? I think so...Don't see how it can be avoided.