They're waking up to new media(like social media) that has grown too powerful as traditional media that can easily be intimidated loses the punch.
Itumbi should be taught a lesson. Just hypothetically: His name should be handed to organized groups that would make his net life a living hell. His phone should be hacked and bugged and every conversation broadcast to the web. Somebody should seize the cameras on his mobile and other devices and have them on youtube.
He should post nothing on twitter that won't be twisted and drowned.
The days when a dissenting person would be arrested, kept incommunicado and then emerge with a signed confession albeit a swollen face - so swollen that the magistrate accepts the police version rather than listen to the deformed creature - are back! This guy was arrested, kept incommunicado and produced in court where he confessed to "mental illness".Allan Wadi is arrested yesterday. And within 24 hours he is sentenced to 2 years in prison. How does that work?
http://www.kenya-today.com/news/shocking-revelation-lieutenant-alan-wadi-may-jailed-suspended-sections-law
Allan Wadi is arrested yesterday. And within 24 hours he is sentenced to 2 years in prison. How does that work?A confession accompanied by a plea guilty
A fourth-year university student will spend two years in jail for posting on social media unprintable insults against President Uhuru Kenyatta.http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Allan-Wadi-University-student-jailed-insulting-Uhuru-Kenyatta/-/1056/2576650/-/1igoa4/-/index.html (http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Allan-Wadi-University-student-jailed-insulting-Uhuru-Kenyatta/-/1056/2576650/-/1igoa4/-/index.html)
Alan Wadi Okengo, alias Lieutenant Wadi, was accused of posting the messages on his Facebook account on December 18 and 19 at an unknown place within Kenya.
Wadi, 25, a political science student at Moi University, was arrested as he attempted to sneak out of the country through the Busia border on December 31.
He was brought back to Nairobi CID headquarters where he was interrogated by cybercrime police sleuths.
Any person who, without lawful excuse, the burden of proof whereof shall lie upon him, utters, prints, publishes any words, or does any act or thing, calculated to bring into contempt, or to excite defiance of or disobedience to, the lawful authority of a public officer or any class of public officers is guilty of an offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years.
When one looks at the legal grounds for jailing this dude; a law straight from 1952(the Mau Mau years). One is left with the impression that there has to be a lawful excuse for anyone to show kamwana contempt. I am thinking in 1952 there may have been no lawful excuses for showing a government officer contempt. One wonders whether the same situation still applies in 2015.QuoteAny person who, without lawful excuse, the burden of proof whereof shall lie upon him, utters, prints, publishes any words, or does any act or thing, calculated to bring into contempt, or to excite defiance of or disobedience to, the lawful authority of a public officer or any class of public officers is guilty of an offence and is liable to imprisonment for a term not exceeding three years.
@Omollo
Where is the uproar? Where is the civil society to denounce such actions? Where is the uproar on the web? Where are the university studenst to shove it to this fake goverment?
@OmolloUhuru and his loyal disciples in government should invite Raila over for coffee, get some tips on growing a thick sin for public criticism and straight-up insults when one is a public figure. George Bush would be another good one to consult, Jacob Zuma not too far behind. Considering what Raila has endured in social media in the last several years, it boggles the mind that someone's job somewhere is to scan through twitter for insults aimed at Uhuru, track down the persons for interrogation and arraignment in court. I can understand curbing what may pass for incitement to violence, but matusi??? I have seen virtually every public figure insulted online, even Jesus Christ, kwani Uhuru ndio nani? :o
Where is the uproar? Where is the civil society to denounce such actions? Where is the uproar on the web? Where are the university studenst to shove it to this fake goverment?
kenya justice system can be swift, was it Ali who said you would need more time and investigation to nail a chicken thief..damn
i think this was a show trial, scare crow prosecution to scare kenyans from voicing their opinions but i agree with most here the judge record should be scrutinized to see the kind of judgement he/she been rendering. judge bandia huyu
In her ruling, Ms Kaguru said , “the offence is serious and a deterrent penalty is called for to serve as a warning to others abusing the social media forums.”
They're waking up to new media(like social media) that has grown too powerful as traditional media that can easily be intimidated loses the punch.When I saw that ka-bit about not publishing/reporting Kebab atrocities (Duale explained that somehow, when KTN broadcasts that Kebab have killed 50 people in a bus, this reporting is what makes us insecure...) When I saw that bit, I immediately wondered how that can be achieved today? If you remember the Assad chemical weapons business in 2013, it was known that chemical attacks had happened through thousands of youtube videos flooding the net just hours after the attack. We must be the silliest human beings alive if we need technology to be reversed and for people to lie in order to deal with terrorism.
@Omollo
Where is the uproar? Where is the civil society to denounce such actions? Where is the uproar on the web? Where are the university studenst to shove it to this fake goverment?
kenya justice system can be swift, was it Ali who said you would need more time and investigation to nail a chicken thief..damn
i think this was a show trial, scare crow prosecution to scare kenyans from voicing their opinions but i agree with most here the judge record should be scrutinized to see the kind of judgement he/she been rendering. judge bandia huyu
Ann Kaguru said as much as she summarily made Alan Wadi the first post-Moi era prisoner of conscience. Msimtusi muthamaki.QuoteIn her ruling, Ms Kaguru said , “the offence is serious and a deterrent penalty is called for to serve as a warning to others abusing the social media forums.”
Next they will come for us in Nipate.
they are coming for you my broda for calling muthamaki 'screw ball' lolIndeed. Especially with the ICC monkey off "our" backs, the motivation behind recent Jubilee moves is lost on me. Some of those new laws supposedly for security suggest that our government is confessing to being unable to offer protection in the 21st century. We all know our issue is corruption. Put in place all the laws you want, unless you figure out a way of making sure corporal kilonzo is actually checking car boots, confiscating weapons, arresting the suspects and not letting them go past designated places after a 50 bob tip, all else is folly. Which everyone in government must know. So why we acting like our problems are so mysterious? I blame those of you who voted Jubilee in 2013 motivated by nothing but either blind tribalism or blind Raila-phobia. We warned you! These people never had much interest in the new constitution. Now that I've said my bit, I will sign out and never come back on until either these issues have been satisfactorily settled in our courts or I'm blogging on a device at least one ocean removed from Nairobi. Wish you all bloggers the best.
on a serious note why is uhuru so insecure? did he expect governing to be a walk in the park?Next they will come for us in Nipate.
they are coming for you my broda for calling muthamaki 'screw ball' lolIndeed. Especially with the ICC monkey off "our" backs, the motivation behind recent Jubilee moves is lost on me. Some of those new laws supposedly for security suggest that our government is confessing to being unable to offer protection in the 21st century. We all know our issue is corruption. Put in place all the laws you want, unless you figure out a way of making sure corporal kilonzo is actually checking car boots, confiscating weapons, arresting the suspects and not letting them go past designated places after a 50 bob tip, all else is folly. Which everyone in government must know. So why we acting like our problems are so mysterious? I blame those of you who voted Jubilee in 2013 motivated by nothing but either blind tribalism or blind Raila-phobia. We warned you! These people never had much interest in the new constitution. Now that I've said my bit, I will sign out and never come back on until either these issues have been satisfactorily settled in our courts or I'm blogging on a device at least one ocean removed from Nairobi. Wish you all bloggers the best.
on a serious note why is uhuru so insecure? did he expect governing to be a walk in the park?Next they will come for us in Nipate.
I have always regarded online anonymity as a luxury. Looks like it will be a survival tool. And we will look to China and Anonymous for time tested tips.
Step 1, pay a moron to register a SIM card for you.
Step 2, use the SIM card on a secondhand phone WITHIN public places
Step 3, open social media accounts using the phony number and a fresh email account
Step 4, discard the old phone for good
Step 5, Pundit & TRV help us with remaining anonymous online especially on smart gadgets. How anonymous is Opera Mini and Chrome? Everytime I try to check my IP address on non default iPad browsers, I get different results
Step 6, Step up matusi for this Jubirlee
Allan Wadi is arrested yesterday. And within 24 hours he is sentenced to 2 years in prison. How does that work?
The first issue that arises here is whether the guy had any (or adequate) legal representation. That is the first thing a judge ought to ensure---that the person is properly represented and understand his plea, guilty or not-guilty. (That is especially important where claims have been made about mental health.)
..........
In many judicial systems---the USA, Canada, and the UK as examples of common law---judges do not have the freedom to sentence willy-nilly, and various guidelines make it hard to impose excessive sentences for relatively minor things.
MoonKiai, where do you unearth such fictitious hogwash from? No one is stopping you from moving and committing your crimes in the ferengis land if you feel all you will get is a slap on the wrist. Kenya should strike out the "up to" and make it absolute mandatory minimums like the US does for many of its laws. It is not Jakuon Mohammed's responsibility to provide lawyers for adults who knowingly do criminally stupid things on his behalf and then pretend to be mentally ill. His ability to escape Kenya's borders, run to Uganda, use a fake name to acquire a new identity all showed he was fully aware of his actions and the repercussions. The US does after all execute mentally ill persons as long as they could tell the difference between right and wrong at the time of commission of the crime. Kenyan laws should be amended to include mandatory confinement and treatment in a mental health institution for those who commit crimes and are determined to be truly mentally ill.
Obienga:
I'm afraid that won't do. Please try to (a) first read what is written and then (b) use some elementary logic in your response. For example if you want to claim that something is fiction, please go ahead and show what it is.
Taking claims of mental illness into account does not mean that the person making the claim cannot or should not be tried or even sentenced. What it means is that a proper medical examination should be conducted and its effect on the allegations determined. See, when you write that
"does after all execute mentally ill persons as long as they could tell the difference between right and wrong at the time of commission of the crime"
a person using elementary logic concludes that the matter had indeed been looked into, by the right professionals. You claim that the man did this and that, and they prove this and that. In what professional capacity did you observe and examine the man? Please share your detailed report with us.
On the matter of sentencing guidelines, the issue is not whether there is a mandatory minimum or not. The issue is whether sentencing is uniform and proportionate to the crime; in this case we are concerned about the latter. The mandatory minimums say that for serious crimes, a judge must not be allowed to be lenient. But at the same time, the guidelines ensure that a judge will not sentence a chicken-thief to 5 years, as happens regularly in a certain country---minor crimes are treated as minor crimes and "first-offense" aspects etc. are taken into account.
Unless you can do better, you will find the other Nipate more suited to your style. Happy New Year.
MoonKiai, where do you unearth such fictitious hogwash from? No one is stopping you from moving and committing your crimes in the ferengis land if you feel all you will get is a slap on the wrist. Kenya should strike out the "up to" and make it absolute mandatory minimums like the US does for many of its laws. It is not Jakuon Mohammed's responsibility to provide lawyers for adults who knowingly do criminally stupid things on his behalf and then pretend to be mentally ill. His ability to escape Kenya's borders, run to Uganda, use a fake name to acquire a new identity all showed he was fully aware of his actions and the repercussions. The US does after all execute mentally ill persons as long as they could tell the difference between right and wrong at the time of commission of the crime. Kenyan laws should be amended to include mandatory confinement and treatment in a mental health institution for those who commit crimes and are determined to be truly mentally ill.
Obienga:
I'm afraid that won't do. Please try to (a) first read what is written and then (b) use some elementary logic in your response. For example if you want to claim that something is fiction, please go ahead and show what it is.
Taking claims of mental illness into account does not mean that the person making the claim cannot or should not be tried or even sentenced. What it means is that a proper medical examination should be conducted and its effect on the allegations determined. See, when you write that
"does after all execute mentally ill persons as long as they could tell the difference between right and wrong at the time of commission of the crime"
a person using elementary logic concludes that the matter had indeed been looked into, by the right professionals. You claim that the man did this and that, and they prove this and that. In what professional capacity did you observe and examine the man? Please share your detailed report with us.
On the matter of sentencing guidelines, the issue is not whether there is a mandatory minimum or not. The issue is whether sentencing is uniform and proportionate to the crime; in this case we are concerned about the latter. The mandatory minimums say that for serious crimes, a judge must not be allowed to be lenient. But at the same time, the guidelines ensure that a judge will not sentence a chicken-thief to 5 years, as happens regularly in a certain country---minor crimes are treated as minor crimes and "first-offense" aspects etc. are taken into account.
Unless you can do better, you will find the other Nipate more suited to your style. Happy New Year.
Nicely and subtly done. The crude mind might miss the point entirely. But we pray it doesn't...lolBetter a crude mind, than a braying donkey that can't control its noisy brays from dawn till dusk.
download tor browser at https://www.torproject.org/projects/torbrowser.html.enI have always regarded online anonymity as a luxury. Looks like it will be a survival tool. And we will look to China and Anonymous for time tested tips.
Step 1, pay a moron to register a SIM card for you.
Step 2, use the SIM card on a secondhand phone WITHIN public places
Step 3, open social media accounts using the phony number and a fresh email account
Step 4, discard the old phone for good
Step 5, Pundit & TRV help us with remaining anonymous online especially on smart gadgets. How anonymous is Opera Mini and Chrome? Everytime I try to check my IP address on non default iPad browsers, I get different results
Step 6, Step up matusi for this Jubirlee
You can run but you cannot hide, two words for the guilty to memorise, egotisticalgoat and egotisticalgiraffe:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/801632/doc1-1.pdf
Did you read the attachment I included? In it you would have seen that a Kenyan sentence for possession of a roll of bhangi is far more lenient than a US mandatory minimum for the same crime.
If mental illness was a defense for every offense, every court in this world would grind to a screeching halt. I cannot imagine the endless nature of such an excuse for lack of personal responsibility. "My lord, I exposed myself because I was mentally ill", "My lord, I was speeding because I was mentally ill".
Get real, this was a deliberate act committed by a sane person who is sane enough to be a University student.
When someone is convicted of an offense punishable by a mandatory minimum sentence, the judge must sentence the defendant to the mandatory minimum sentence or to a higher sentence. The judge has no power to sentence the defendant to less time than the mandatory minimum.
Mr Mueke, who would chat with Wadi during school outings and holidays, said the blogger became mentally disturbed after the death of Starehe’s founding director Geoffrey Griffin.
“His current mental state can be traced to immediately after the death of the principal Mr Griffin,” Mr Mueke said via e-mail.
..............
“He called his love for Starehe ‘a golden love’ and had concerns about its leadership and, above all, its deteriorating performance. It had a psychological impact (on him) because to him Griffins was like the father he never had.
http://www.nation.co.ke/news/Jailed-blogger-usually-blunt-Peers/-/1056/2577904/-/tf6buez/-/index.html
Did you read the attachment I included? In it you would have seen that a Kenyan sentence for possession of a roll of bhangi is far more lenient than a US mandatory minimum for the same crime.
Obienga:
I actually have been arrested in the USA for possessing a small amount weed in a non-weed-friendly part of the country. I paid a small fine, and that was that. Can you tell me about this harsh mandatory sentence and why it would not have applied in my case?
My first piece of advice to you was that you learn to read. Apparently, you are unable or unwilling to do that, even when it is material that you are providing! Yes, I did read the document at http://famm.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Chart-All-Fed-MMs-NW.pdf
Marijuana is mentioned twice under "Drug Trafficking": for possession of 100+ kiliograms/100+ plants and 1000+ kiliograms/1000+ plants. That's a little bit more than a roll. The law then has guidelines on the frequency of offense and reasons & effects for/of possession. Let's take, as a minimum, the 5-years for a 1st offense in the first category and compare that with numerous cases that you will find in Kenya:
Here's one, three years ago, in which a man got a life sentence for 48 rolls of weed. Yes, 48 rolls. Valued at Sh. 1,300:
http://www.ccguide.org/news/shownewsarticle.php?articleid=16343
And here's one of a guy going in for two years for just 2 rolls---yes two rolls.
http://www.standardmedia.co.ke/article/1144030465/bhang-peddler-jailed-for-two-years
And not too long ago a 75-yr old man in Kenya was sentenced to six months in jail for the possession of 6 rolls of weed.
Further explanations:
I think you ran into some requirements that suited your arguments and then, without careful reading or taking into account of context, you ran with what you got. Now, read carefully:
(a) Even taking into account the current "fuzziness" in the difference between Federal and State law, marijuana possession is largely treated as misdemeanor.
(b) A great deal depends on how much weed the person has and what they intend to do with it.
(c) If you want a better understanding of US Federal Law on such things, here is a summary even you should be able to understand:
http://norml.org/laws/item/federal-penalties-2
Be sure to read the whole page & slowly!
(d) Once you have read that, try to understand that Federal Law is not necessarily the same as State Law. Many US states (and even cities within states) have very liberal weed laws when it comes to personal use, and Federal prosecutors will not waste time chasing minor potheads and the like when even the state laws won't bother with them.QuoteIf mental illness was a defense for every offense, every court in this world would grind to a screeching halt. I cannot imagine the endless nature of such an excuse for lack of personal responsibility. "My lord, I exposed myself because I was mentally ill", "My lord, I was speeding because I was mentally ill".
First, in countries with proper judicial systems, once issues of mental health come into the picture, there are almost always careful procedures for handling the matter, and they are lengthy enough that arraignment and sentencing could not possibly happen in one day. But the courts in those places are not full of people claiming to be ill. Why is that? Let's make that your homework for today, and we'll look into your answer tomorrow.
Second, as I have already explained, the issue is not that a person who claims mental illness should get a free pass. It is whether such a claim is properly investigated.QuoteGet real, this was a deliberate act committed by a sane person who is sane enough to be a University student.
This might surprise you, but, then again, you are you: Being a university student, or a university professor, or ... does not make one immune to mental illness.
If he indeed did not loose the mental defense on a technicality or through cross examination that established otherwise, then he should appeal. If the judge made an error, then the appeals court can set aside the sentence and order a re-examination. If he has since apologised, the prosecutor may elect to withdraw the charges and he could go home free.
Has anyone considered the remote possibility that denying him his right to a mental examination (assuming all procedures were followed) could have been done in his best interest to give him and everyone else a way a quiet way out on appeal?
He was likely unrepresented, and if so then perhaps he could have requested the court to appoint a lawyer for him or give him more time to get one.
Indeed one must ask, where were his blogosphere supporters in his time of need? Perhaps they too like the judge understood the import and serious nature of his actions.
If he indeed did not loose the mental defense on a technicality or through cross examination that established otherwise, then he should appeal. If the judge made an error, then the appeals court can set aside the sentence and order a re-examination. If he has since apologised, the prosecutor may elect to withdraw the charges and he could go home free.
If the reporting is right, then he has already been sentenced. In that case, I see no role for the prosecutor unless he/she wants to go back and tell the court they erred, and I don't see that happening; in fact, such a path could implicate the judge in who-knows-what.QuoteHas anyone considered the remote possibility that denying him his right to a mental examination (assuming all procedures were followed) could have been done in his best interest to give him and everyone else a way a quiet way out on appeal?
I understand your point about the stigma (r.e. mental illness) in Kenya. But this idea that some are well-placed to decide when others should be denied their rights is staggering; and I think a judge should be the last person to have attitude. Even the most rough-and-ready dictatorship---and it was not too long ago that Kenya was under one of those---is based on the "we know what's best" . Most normal people have no use for that when it comes to the rights and, for that reason, will not consider it. Not even as a remote possibility.QuoteHe was likely unrepresented, and if so then perhaps he could have requested the court to appoint a lawyer for him or give him more time to get one.
I think this is a very significant point in this case. We can speculate---about more time, requests to the court, etc.---but the extraordinary speed with which this happened means that we are just speculating when we should not be.QuoteIndeed one must ask, where were his blogosphere supporters in his time of need? Perhaps they too like the judge understood the import and serious nature of his actions.
I see this as largely irrelevant, except in so far it relates to the speedy proceedings, which meant that the case was over before most people even knew it had started. Arrested on Dec 31, Jan 1 is a holiday, arraigned and sentenced on Jan 2. Amazing timing.
I am trying to get information on similar Speed-And-During-The Holidays sort of thing. I will you know when I get some, but so far that speed seems extraordinary even without the holidaying.
The speed at which he was convicted and jailed is indeed a record, but could it be due to the fact that he pled guilty on arraignment?
Perhaps this should serve as a future case study for judges but as you state, we would be speculating without knowing the events that day in the court room. Strike Uhuru, insert Obama, make the first statement in the US and I am sure, there will be very likely consequences (prison or confinement to a mental institution)
(https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10340142_903014409723172_7488514028409587473_n.jpg?oh=c061db9e0b22da97dc113d9a52c66d6a&oe=553B5A42)
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10378065_10153454341453272_3515204684907762397_n.jpg?oh=c273b6d71f556757eabcd620b93eb0f9&oe=54F9F4C9&__gda__=1429763510_e93cc897d8700cc7e926e601f735118b)
Unless they are calling for Obama to be put to death because he is guilty of treason, in which case Garrow is on board. - See more at: http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/garrow-obama-deserves-be-killed-treason
Secret Service spokesman Edwin Donovan did not identify the child who posted the poll or release his or her age. He said agents had determined that he or she was not a threat to the president.
"Case closed," Donovan said, according to the AP. "I guess you could characterize it as a mistake." http://www.cbsnews.com/news/child-was-behind-facebook-poll-on-killing-obama
Not necessarily. Threatening to kill the president of the USA will probably get you into trouble. Merely suggesting that he should be killed is a different matter. People have claimed that Obama should be killed (and they have given "good legal reasons"), had polls asking whether Obama should be killed etc. Those people are getting with their lives and happily enjoying the American Dream.
Some samples:
http://www.rightwingwatch.org/content/garrow-obama-deserves-be-killed-treason
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/28/kill-obama-facebook-poll-_n_302090.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2076915/Jules-Manson-probed-Secret-Service-Obama-killed-Facebook-rant.html
@obienga,
What are those links?
Are you saying that if I am arrested on the 31st December. Charged with a crime on 2nd January. And I plead guilty. No lawyer. That the proper thing for the judge to do is to sentence?
...pleading guilty to two charges of hate speech and demeaning authority of a public officer, contrary to Section 132 of the Penal Code.http://www.kenyalaw.org/Downloads/GreyBook/8.%20The%20Penal%20Code.pdf
Obienga:
From what I can tell---it's all been so speedy and North-Korean---nobody seems to have exact details. But it appears that the man had two types of charges: one in relation to a suggestion of some unpleasantness for Uhuru and one suggesting other nasty stuff for people from Central.
For the first, all I know of is a statement that "Uhuru must be killed ...". Under which law (in Kenya) would he have been charged? Perhaps you can shed some light on that? The laws that I can readily think of appear to be problematic for a prosecutor faced with any half-decent lawyer.
The links are what the suspect posted and was charged for. In many courts and many countries, pleading guilty to non-capital crimes will earn you a quick sentence or a sentencing date. Depending on the crime, you may be remanded pending sentencing. Access to a lawyer is not constitutionally guaranteed in many types of cases (in some countries, it is offered). Thus if you plead guilty instead of not guilty, there is no need for a trial and upon conviction, a sentence can be issued all in one day. You theoretically could be arrested in the am, plead guilty before noon and be in prison by 3pm. Aside from stating that you are mentally ill or were tortured, there should be no barriers to sentencing.@obienga,
What are those links?
Are you saying that if I am arrested on the 31st December. Charged with a crime on 2nd January. And I plead guilty. No lawyer. That the proper thing for the judge to do is to sentence?
The links are what the suspect posted and was charged for. In many courts and many countries, pleading guilty to non-capital crimes will earn you a quick sentence or a sentencing date. Depending on the crime, you may be remanded pending sentencing. Access to a lawyer is not constitutionally guaranteed in many types of cases (in some countries, it is offered). Thus if you plead guilty instead of not guilty, there is no need for a trial and upon conviction, a sentence can be issued all in one day. You theoretically could be arrested in the am, plead guilty before noon and be in prison by 3pm. Aside from stating that you are mentally ill or were tortured, there should be no barriers to sentencing.These links. How were they able to vouch for their authenticity? How do they know that they are not modified by a third party? Or was his guilty plea enough?@obienga,
What are those links?
Are you saying that if I am arrested on the 31st December. Charged with a crime on 2nd January. And I plead guilty. No lawyer. That the proper thing for the judge to do is to sentence?
You theoretically could be arrested in the am, plead guilty before noon and be in prison by 3pm.
Aside from stating that you are mentally ill or were tortured, there should be no barriers to sentencing.
Here is what the Nation reported but his fate lies in getting a lawyer and appealing within the time limit. He could also apply for a pardon:
...pleading guilty to two charges of hate speech and demeaning authority of a public officer, contrary to Section 132 of the Penal Code.
These links. How were they able to vouch for their authenticity? How do they know that they are not modified by a third party? Or was his guilty plea enough?
His friends found out about his fate after sentencing. Practically no one else knew until he was sentenced. Was Alan Wadi given reasonable time to contact a lawyer? Is he supposed to be informed of certain rights when he is arrested? Is legal representation one of those?
You theoretically could be arrested in the am, plead guilty before noon and be in prison by 3pm.
So, how often does that actually happen, even in Kenya?QuoteAside from stating that you are mentally ill or were tortured, there should be no barriers to sentencing.
The man did claim mental illness.
And, the Kenyan constitution states that:
50( 2) Every accused person has the right to a fair trial, which includes the right—
(h) to have an advocate assigned to the accused person by the
State and at State expense, if substantial injustice would
otherwise result, and to be informed of this right promptly;
It is rare but not impossible. It has been attempted for misdemeanor offenses.
http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Mobile--traffic-court-hands-out-instant-sentences/-/539546/1964256/-/lsxe0r/-/index.html
What does "substantial injustice" mean for instance? I believe it covers the bill of rights and the possible deprivation of the same under law, otherwise traffic offenders could demand to have a lawyer provided for them. Playing devils advocate, what if he declined such an offer from the court? Did his guilty plea negate the need for a trial?
Interesting exchange between MoonKi and obienga
Everything about this case stinks; swift arrest,super fast arraigning and sentencing not to mention the convenient guilty plea.
I bet the negro was assured of a pardon or something close to that if he pled guilty.
And Itumbi..a whole PSCU director at STATEHOUSE...was in the picture...all along including knowing when he was arrested, brought back to Nairobi CID and taken to Magistrate...where guy plead guilty and was jailed quickly.Why would such small crimes of insulting PORK over twitter become a national matter.....unless you have pork who is small minded.
This people is the return of MOI ERA. Where people were arraigned in a kangaroo court over weekend or even holidays all ready to plead guilty of course after being tortured or intimidated.
We fought that KANU and which we must now fight this new KANU regime.
Wadi called for killing of a certain person and ethnic cleansing in those Facebook posts which are even online and pleaded guilty in court,he even tried to run away from Kenya because he knew he was on the wrong...the discussion has maliciously turned from wadi to uhuru..uhuru haters are just looking for ways to demonize him and neither was he a judge nor a prosecutor in that court,get a life,
Without Prejudice.
Wadi called for killing of a certain person and ethnic cleansing in those Facebook posts which are even online and pleaded guilty in court,he even tried to run away from Kenya because he knew he was on the wrong...the discussion has maliciously turned from wadi to uhuru..uhuru haters are just looking for ways to demonize him and neither was he a judge nor a prosecutor in that court,get a life,
Without Prejudice.
Which one: The Fake one?The other account, created 22nd Dec. What is to say that it is not a crude impersonation attempt by Itumbi?Wadi called for killing of a certain person and ethnic cleansing in those Facebook posts which are even online and pleaded guilty in court,he even tried to run away from Kenya because he knew he was on the wrong...the discussion has maliciously turned from wadi to uhuru..uhuru haters are just looking for ways to demonize him and neither was he a judge nor a prosecutor in that court,get a life,
Without Prejudice.
“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.”https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=616674495145048&set=p.616674495145048&type=1&theater
These obienga links are interesting. They are being spread around mindlessly by the average jubilant like gospel truth. That is not remarkable.
What is remarkable? It would appear they are made by Liutenant Wadi (https://www.facebook.com/liutenant.wadi?fref=photo). Lieutenant Wadi (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lieutenant-Wadi/914974541866158) (the real mccoy - my assumption) then shares a link from that account and acknowledges the impersonation. Here is the link https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=918158598214419&id=914974541866158 (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=918158598214419&id=914974541866158)
Intriguing. Now it looks like if I were in Africa, someone could use Windy City Assas$in to write something unpleasant about kamwana. Then I can be spirited across boundaries in record time, confess to the crime in front Ann Kaguru, and be in Manyani in time for dinner.
(https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10340142_903014409723172_7488514028409587473_n.jpg?oh=c061db9e0b22da97dc113d9a52c66d6a&oe=553B5A42)
That is his new account, his old account with the posts was deleted by Facebook as he himself verifies and to which somebody posted a screenshot from the old account shortly thereafter in response:Here is another Liutenant Wadi page https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008628284736&fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008628284736&fref=ts). They seem to be all over. And some are deleted, apparently.
https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=914976965199249&id=914974541866158 (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=914976965199249&id=914974541866158)
In response to the person posting the screenshot, he does not contest its validity, instead he states:Quote“There may be times when we are powerless to prevent injustice, but there must never be a time when we fail to protest.”https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=616674495145048&set=p.616674495145048&type=1&theater (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=616674495145048&set=p.616674495145048&type=1&theater)
Would you plead guilty knowing only too well the impersonation that would have occurred?These obienga links are interesting. They are being spread around mindlessly by the average jubilant like gospel truth. That is not remarkable.
What is remarkable? It would appear they are made by Liutenant Wadi (https://www.facebook.com/liutenant.wadi?fref=photo). Lieutenant Wadi (https://www.facebook.com/pages/Lieutenant-Wadi/914974541866158) (the real mccoy - my assumption) then shares a link from that account and acknowledges the impersonation. Here is the link https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=918158598214419&id=914974541866158 (https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=918158598214419&id=914974541866158)
Intriguing. Now it looks like if I were in Africa, someone could use Windy City Assas$in to write something unpleasant about kamwana. Then I can be spirited across boundaries in record time, confess to the crime in front Ann Kaguru, and be in Manyani in time for dinner.
(https://scontent-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/10340142_903014409723172_7488514028409587473_n.jpg?oh=c061db9e0b22da97dc113d9a52c66d6a&oe=553B5A42)
Here is another Liutenant Wadi page https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008628284736&fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008628284736&fref=ts). They seem to be all over. And some are deleted, apparently.
What is obvious? It's pretty easy to create these things. Anyone can do it. Including Itumbi with the assistance of my pet monkey.
Alan Wadi indeed mentions that someone is impersonating him using Liutenant Wadi, Dec 26th. He does not seem to mind it.
The link you share with his comments is Dec 29th. When he has already said someone is impersonating him. Is it possible he sees no need to dwell on what, in his own words, he has already called an impostor?
Given those numerous, accounts and impersonation. What is to say his guilty plea was not coerced? If he is told of his right to have legal representation, he is clearly not given enough time to consider it, let alone get it. Unless he was arrested before December 31st.
That Alan Wadi's case is bogus, should that even be a question anymore? Most people only hear about him after he is casually jailed by Ann Kaguru.
Yes, anyone can do it but one of course would have to prove they did not do it. In Wadi's posts, many of his friends respond, some suggest he needs to cool down. Those who were interviewed by the Nation do not deny that he could not have done it.We are agreed impersonation is easy. Trivially so. It's even easier to make a screen-shot of an alleged post. One can merely download a genuine page and style-sheet. And fill in with whatever content they feel like. Copy screen. Save gif. Attach.
A case is not bogus if he indeed did it. Mental illness may be his only salvation in this case. As we debate here, he is in prison, his lawyer should be filing an appeal on numerous grounds. It is still a question of whether he did it or not. If he did, the question would be whether the punishment fits the crime having considered the mitigating factors. If anyone framed him then they should be arrested and prosecuted for fabricating evidence and he should have the liberty of suing them and the State for damages.
The reason lawyers advice suspects not to talk to the police, is because such interaction can be self incriminating. Confessions are difficult to throw out as are guilty pleas made in open court.Here is another Liutenant Wadi page https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008628284736&fref=ts (https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100008628284736&fref=ts). They seem to be all over. And some are deleted, apparently.
What is obvious? It's pretty easy to create these things. Anyone can do it. Including Itumbi with the assistance of my pet monkey.
Alan Wadi indeed mentions that someone is impersonating him using Liutenant Wadi, Dec 26th. He does not seem to mind it.
The link you share with his comments is Dec 29th. When he has already said someone is impersonating him. Is it possible he sees no need to dwell on what, in his own words, he has already called an impostor?
Given those numerous, accounts and impersonation. What is to say his guilty plea was not coerced? If he is told of his right to have legal representation, he is clearly not given enough time to consider it, let alone get it. Unless he was arrested before December 31st.
That Alan Wadi's case is bogus, should that even be a question anymore? Most people only hear about him after he is casually jailed by Ann Kaguru.
We are agreed impersonation is easy. Trivially so. It's even easier to make a screen-shot of an alleged post. One can merely download a genuine page and style-sheet. And fill in with whatever content they feel like. Copy screen. Save gif. Attach.The prosecution still has to prove its case, a guilty plea however takes this burden off their hands. I believe this new clause in the Evidence act still stands:
Would you say that changes the burden of proof(disproof?) to the accused?
(4) Electronic and digital evidence generated by a person in the ordinary course of business, or a copy or printout of or an extract from the electronic and digital evidence certified to be correct by a person in the service of such person, is on its mere production in any civil, criminal, administrative or disciplinary proceedings under any law, the rules of a self-regulatory organization or any other law or the common law, admissible in evidence against any person and rebuttable proof of the facts contained in such record, copy, printout or extract.
I never really doubted the burden would be with the prosecution. The guilty plea. Under the circumstances. I have no reason to rule out duress.We are agreed impersonation is easy. Trivially so. It's even easier to make a screen-shot of an alleged post. One can merely download a genuine page and style-sheet. And fill in with whatever content they feel like. Copy screen. Save gif. Attach.The prosecution still has to prove its case, a guilty plea however takes this burden off their hands. I believe this new clause in the Evidence act still stands:
Would you say that changes the burden of proof(disproof?) to the accused?Quote(4) Electronic and digital evidence generated by a person in the ordinary course of business, or a copy or printout of or an extract from the electronic and digital evidence certified to be correct by a person in the service of such person, is on its mere production in any civil, criminal, administrative or disciplinary proceedings under any law, the rules of a self-regulatory organization or any other law or the common law, admissible in evidence against any person and rebuttable proof of the facts contained in such record, copy, printout or extract.
I do not fully agree with Gaitho in the Nation, however his opinion on this same issue today is worth a read.
"Cord MPs on Monday instructed the coalition’s legal team to handle the case of Allan Okengo alias Lieutenant Wadi, a university student jailed for two years for incitement and insulting President Uhuru Kenyatta through facebook. The MPs said Wadi’s sentencing was based on archaic provisions of the Penal Code."
- See more at: http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/cord-mps-instruct-legal-team-handle-wadis-case-blogger-was-jailed-two-years-abusing-uhuru#sthash.qcECDn4P.dpuf
I never really doubted the burden would be with the prosecution. The guilty plea. Under the circumstances. I have no reason to rule out duress.
In any case, I'd be hard pressed to put it better than MOON Ki. He has covered the legal angle well.
Admission of digital evidence does not mean accepting anything presented in digital format as true.
Already we are agreed it is laughably easy to create bogus Facebook accounts, phony content and use it as evidence. It does not pass muster on nipate, let alone a serious court.
twitter does a better job with duplicating account names. But it is far from immune from simple download of page and css, phony content, photoshop.
Digital evidence is fine. But it demands higher thresholds of authenticity than the joke I have seen presented with regards to Alan Wadi.
"Cord MPs on Monday instructed the coalition’s legal team to handle the case of Allan Okengo alias Lieutenant Wadi, a university student jailed for two years for incitement and insulting President Uhuru Kenyatta through facebook. The MPs said Wadi’s sentencing was based on archaic provisions of the Penal Code."
- See more at: http://www.the-star.co.ke/news/cord-mps-instruct-legal-team-handle-wadis-case-blogger-was-jailed-two-years-abusing-uhuru#sthash.qcECDn4P.dpuf
They had Alai whining over bail or something, no idea what their arrangement was
The World of Kenyan politics is all about money and favors. First Alai denies he did it for CORD. Then he manages to raise 200 000 for bail and as he announces it uses the opportunity to castigate CORD for not bailing him him. He words it to reveal a sense of entitlement denied.
He then launches a tirade against ODM (remember it was CORD in earlier posts).
To a casual observer, it is plain nonsense. However if you dig deeper, you hit shit. The latest memo from TNA is to demonize ODM and completely stop mentioning CORD. They have been given the key words to use which should broadly reflect "violence", "Electoral Malpractices", "Refusal to accept defeat", "An Old Leader that should retire" (as if those facing mandatory retirement like Muthaura and Kinyua have ever really retired), etc. The question is what is a CORD ... ooops ... ODM activist doing with a jubilee memo?They had Alai whining over bail or something, no idea what their arrangement was
Omorlo,
I see it the other way round; being rabidly pro-CORD/Jubirlee is a liability. You lose respect somewhat. You are not objective. So Alai is trying to overcompensate by making feeble attacks at CORD to give some semblance or 'balance'. Assaulting and exposing injustices wherever and whenever
He could easily have been a serious activist. He lost it. For all purposes and intent, the Negro is a Rayirla PSYCHOphant specializing on attacking Rayirla's nemesis; Ouruto.
He looks like a lone wolf whom CORD took an interest in just like Wadi, hasted to over-promise only to change their minds.
Unless I am mistaken, evidence is presented in court and you and I did not see it. What was posted here would serve as eyewitness statements by those who took the screenshots if they indeed were to testify. Indeed did the same account also post photos of the suspect, were those same photos found on the suspects mobile phone ? I'm sure that you are also aware that Facebook does not block accounts without an internal investigation. Many times, a Facebook account is linked to an email account and in the case of two factor authentication, a mobile phone number. Either way, this will be an interesting case to watch as it unfolds and is appealed. The State may decide not to contest on appeal, or perhaps it will. The worst thing an innocent person can do for themselves is plead guilty when they know that they are not (except for minor offences to save the pain of going through a lengthy trial).The jailing. The court affair. I am deferring to MOON Ki's analysis. If you come up with something more inspired. I'll happily shift my opinion accordingly.I never really doubted the burden would be with the prosecution. The guilty plea. Under the circumstances. I have no reason to rule out duress.
In any case, I'd be hard pressed to put it better than MOON Ki. He has covered the legal angle well.
Admission of digital evidence does not mean accepting anything presented in digital format as true.
Already we are agreed it is laughably easy to create bogus Facebook accounts, phony content and use it as evidence. It does not pass muster on nipate, let alone a serious court.
twitter does a better job with duplicating account names. But it is far from immune from simple download of page and css, phony content, photoshop.
Digital evidence is fine. But it demands higher thresholds of authenticity than the joke I have seen presented with regards to Alan Wadi.
Omorlo,
Not convinced. I see it the other way round; being rabidly pro-CORD/Jubirlee is a liability. You lose respect somewhat. You are not objective. So Alai is trying to overcompensate by making feeble attacks at CORD to give some semblance of 'balance',assaulting and exposing injustices wherever and whenever
He could easily have been a serious activist. He lost it. For all purposes and intent, the Negro is a Rayirla PSYCHOphant specializing on attacking Rayirla's nemesis; Ouruto.
He looks like a lone wolf whom CORD took an interest in just like Wadi, hasted to over-promise only to change their minds.
The jailing. The court affair. I am deferring to MOON Ki's analysis. If you come up with something more inspired. I'll happily shift my opinion accordingly.
1. I am fascinated by the links of images you shared here. I am assuming you believe they are true. What is your basis? How will the person who took the screenshots prove they are not phony?
2. Can you prove that the images you have shared about "Alan Wadi" represent anything done by Alan Wadi? Is it very trivial to come up with those links you share? Would it take something more concrete than innuendo to convince a reasonable person?
3. Alan Wadi's photos are on the web. Anybody can download them. Create a phony account. Phony content. Will facebook stop them? I could even use it for my avatar. Or put it on my mobile phone. Create decorative toilet paper with it.
4.If I were you I would try it if in doubt, if you haven't already. A child with dyslexia could easily create an account of Lieutenant kissing the ground that kamwana walks on.
5. Alternatively one can just download the page, replace content with phony content and photo-shop.
6. If one does not see something more convincing, would they be crazy to dismiss the links you readily shared here as nothing more than jubilee propaganda?
I have a problem with your attempt to BOX people. Let people be. Let Alai be. Let Vooke be.We are all different. What works for you doesn't work for me. Itumbi and Alai are similar. They are outspoken.
Only a really stupid gov would waste time with some of these folks.
During PEV the guys i saw going for war and for demos i can bet never voted..they couldn't tell ODM from PNU..unwashed criminal minded monkeys straight from forest..who did not even vote.
People post stuff on facebook when they are angry, when they are frustrated, when they are happy, when they are drunk, stuck in bad traffic,name it...nobody should and ought to take them seriously...esp stupid student like Wadi..
You cannot police people life..Omorlo,
I see it the other way round; being rabidly pro-CORD/Jubirlee is a liability. You lose respect somewhat. You are not objective. So Alai is trying to overcompensate by making feeble attacks at CORD to give some semblance or 'balance'. Assaulting and exposing injustices wherever and whenever
He could easily have been a serious activist. He lost it. For all purposes and intent, the Negro is a Rayirla PSYCHOphant specializing on attacking Rayirla's nemesis; Ouruto.
He looks like a lone wolf whom CORD took an interest in just like Wadi, hasted to over-promise only to change their minds.
Unless I am mistaken, evidence is presented in court and you and I did not see it. What was posted here would serve as eyewitness statements by those who took the screenshots if they indeed were to testify. Indeed did the same account also post photos of the suspect, were those same photos found on the suspects mobile phone ? I'm sure that you are also aware that Facebook does not block accounts without an internal investigation. Many times, a Facebook account is linked to an email account and in the case of two factor authentication, a mobile phone number. Either way, this will be an interesting case to watch as it unfolds and is appealed. The State may decide not to contest on appeal, or perhaps it will. The worst thing an innocent person can do for themselves is plead guilty when they know that they are not (except for minor offences to save the pain of going through a lengthy trial).The jailing. The court affair. I am deferring to MOON Ki's analysis. If you come up with something more inspired. I'll happily shift my opinion accordingly.I never really doubted the burden would be with the prosecution. The guilty plea. Under the circumstances. I have no reason to rule out duress.
In any case, I'd be hard pressed to put it better than MOON Ki. He has covered the legal angle well.
Admission of digital evidence does not mean accepting anything presented in digital format as true.
Already we are agreed it is laughably easy to create bogus Facebook accounts, phony content and use it as evidence. It does not pass muster on nipate, let alone a serious court.
twitter does a better job with duplicating account names. But it is far from immune from simple download of page and css, phony content, photoshop.
Digital evidence is fine. But it demands higher thresholds of authenticity than the joke I have seen presented with regards to Alan Wadi.
I am fascinated by the links of images you shared here. I am assuming you believe they are true. What is your basis? How will the person who took the screenshots prove they are not phony?
Can you prove that the images you have shared about "Alan Wadi" represent anything done by Alan Wadi? Is it very trivial to come up with those links you share? Would it take something more concrete than innuendo to convince a reasonable person?
Alan Wadi's photos are on the web. Anybody can download them. Create a phony account. Phony content. Will facebook stop them? I could even use it for my avatar. Or put it on my mobile phone. Create decorative toilet paper with it.
If I were you I would try it if in doubt, if you haven't already. A child with dyslexia could easily create an account of Lieutenant kissing the ground that kamwana walks on.
Alternatively one can just download the page, replace content with phony content and photo-shop.
If one does not see something more convincing, would they be crazy to dismiss the links you readily shared here as nothing more than jubilee propaganda?
The jailing. The court affair. I am deferring to MOON Ki's analysis. If you come up with something more inspired. I'll happily shift my opinion accordingly.
I am fascinated by the links of images you shared here. I am assuming you believe they are true. What is your basis? How will the person who took the screenshots prove they are not phony?
Can you prove that the images you have shared about "Alan Wadi" represent anything done by Alan Wadi? Is it very trivial to come up with those links you share? Would it take something more concrete than innuendo to convince a reasonable person?
Alan Wadi's photos are on the web. Anybody can download them. Create a phony account. Phony content. Will facebook stop them? I could even use it for my avatar. Or put it on my mobile phone. Create decorative toilet paper with it.
If I were you I would try it if in doubt, if you haven't already. A child with dyslexia could easily create an account of Lieutenant kissing the ground that kamwana walks on.
Alternatively one can just download the page, replace content with phony content and photo-shop.
If one does not see something more convincing, would they be crazy to dismiss the links you readily shared here as nothing more than jubilee propaganda?
I have a problem with your attempts to BOX me. Let me be me, ignore me. Period.
Alai was not even the point. I loudly wondered whether CORD would keep the promise to represent Wadi seeing they promised Alai bail but they failed. Omorlo thinks Alai is Jubirlee, I think otherwise. BOTH of us are attempting to 'BOX' him but for some reason all you see is vooke. Post your opinion if you differ with BOTH of us and stop BOXING vooke.
No problem, since the case was contested and decided against the prosecution on Nipate, it is moot to continue to endlessly beat the issue to death.The jailing. The court affair. I am deferring to MOON Ki's analysis. If you come up with something more inspired. I'll happily shift my opinion accordingly.
I am fascinated by the links of images you shared here. I am assuming you believe they are true. What is your basis? How will the person who took the screenshots prove they are not phony?
Can you prove that the images you have shared about "Alan Wadi" represent anything done by Alan Wadi? Is it very trivial to come up with those links you share? Would it take something more concrete than innuendo to convince a reasonable person?
Alan Wadi's photos are on the web. Anybody can download them. Create a phony account. Phony content. Will facebook stop them? I could even use it for my avatar. Or put it on my mobile phone. Create decorative toilet paper with it.
If I were you I would try it if in doubt, if you haven't already. A child with dyslexia could easily create an account of Lieutenant kissing the ground that kamwana walks on.
Alternatively one can just download the page, replace content with phony content and photo-shop.
If one does not see something more convincing, would they be crazy to dismiss the links you readily shared here as nothing more than jubilee propaganda?
Are you bolting? Again?
Much to your annoyance, I have other things to do unlike your endless trolling both here and at .comAre you bolting? Again?
Termie,Yours is a false dichotomy. It represents nothing anybody is saying. Obienga has already admitted they may be fake. I think.
Occam's Razor. More assumptions mean more BS.
1. Arrest a negro say 10th Dec
2. You have no evidence but you are determined to nail him so you detain him
3. Open a facebook account with near similar name as his
4. Post inflammatory messages
5. Torture or threaten him and basically FORCE him to confess to the fake posts
6. Pretend that you arrested him on 31st, twenty days after. Sentence him to two years for pleading guilty
How plausible is this?
Moi did it so why not?
Let me make my assumptions
1. Wadi posts inflammatory messages
2. Wadi is arrested
3. Wadi readily confesses
4. Wadi pleads guilty
5. Wadi gets 2 years
I don't see what you gain by pushing Obienga to admitting that the posts MAY have been faked. It remains a possibility no different from assuming they was not. So it is all about which assumptions are more sensible.
You are not too far from guessing that he was PAID by Ouru to insult him so that he could be arrested and sentenced to warn others. There were plans to release him immediately AFTER the sentencing and whisk him to Turkey to finish his degree from there. Bleep Warren Commission and his single-bullet theory
Dennis Onsarigo @Donsarigo Jan 2
Was he represented by the state “@matundura78: Alan Wadi Okengo has today been charged with hate speech & undermining auguilty @odpp_ke”
Duncan Ondimu @matundura78 Jan 2
@Donsarigo he was unrepresented. Its only in murder cases that State is required to provide an advocate He opted to plead guilty @ODPP_KE
Duncan Ondimu @matundura78 Jan 2
@Donsarigo legal representation is a choice refer to Article 50(2)(g) @TonyLitunya @ODPP_KE
Duncan Ondimu ?@matundura78 Jan 2
@Donsarigo Article 50(2)(h) @TonyLitunya @ODPP_KEAlan Wadi Okengo has today been charged with hate speech & undermining authority of a public officer. He pleaded guilty @odpp_ke
— Duncan Ondimu, OGW (@matundura78) January 2, 2015
Good bye! Those questions Termie asked are TOUGH. One needs a brain to even respond to any. You knew you had been had and suddenly you got "other business" to attend to? Is that business calling me names - something you know you can't do here?Much to your annoyance, I have other things to do unlike your endless trolling both here and at .comAre you bolting? Again?
I did not say adiós. TOUGH by your standards but unhelpful in my opinion. Do you have the evidence in front of you to analyse it? Do you have official communications from Facebook that are contrary to the facts? It adds no value for anyone to keep going round in endless, never ending circles of debate. Perhaps it does for some as an entertaining way to pass time. Zacarias Moussaoui, educated with a masters degree, but arguably mentally ill, had the best defence afforded to him by the US government at his disposal which he declined, he choose to plead guilty while informed of the consequences just as Wadi was advised. Moussaoui remains in prison to this day as does Wadi. When the appeal commences then we can debate factual occurrences regarding the validity or invalidity of evidence subject to it being not sub-judiceWhat is your basis? Do you have official communication from facebook to that effect? Are they facts merely because you say they are?
Termie, do not try to be mischievous inventing things I never admitted to. They are not fake in my view. You are entitled to your opinion, just don't try to invent opinions for others.
Termie,Yours is a false dichotomy. It represents nothing anybody is saying. Obienga has already admitted they may be fake. I think.
Occam's Razor. More assumptions mean more BS.
1. Arrest a negro say 10th Dec
2. You have no evidence but you are determined to nail him so you detain him
3. Open a facebook account with near similar name as his
4. Post inflammatory messages
5. Torture or threaten him and basically FORCE him to confess to the fake posts
6. Pretend that you arrested him on 31st, twenty days after. Sentence him to two years for pleading guilty
How plausible is this?
Moi did it so why not?
Let me make my assumptions
1. Wadi posts inflammatory messages
2. Wadi is arrested
3. Wadi readily confesses
4. Wadi pleads guilty
5. Wadi gets 2 years
I don't see what you gain by pushing Obienga to admitting that the posts MAY have been faked. It remains a possibility no different from assuming they was not. So it is all about which assumptions are more sensible.
You are not too far from guessing that he was PAID by Ouru to insult him so that he could be arrested and sentenced to warn others. There were plans to release him immediately AFTER the sentencing and whisk him to Turkey to finish his degree from there. Bleep Warren Commission and his single-bullet theory
The really important question is whether it is beyond insane to think that Wadi might have been coerced by this government to confess? Is it even sensible to think otherwise? It could be argued that one would be out of his mind to think otherwise.
I am not pushing obienga to do anything. I am just airing my views. Clarifying. Taking care of any obfuscation designed to misrepresent them. Asking questions. obienga remains free to believe the muthamaki does not crap.
Regardless of what I believe, I would be biased to claim those links prove Alan Wadi said those things. Even if he did. Conversely, they certainly don't prove he didn't either.
In my opinion, the sensible position is not to assume anything either way about them. Most people will view them from the tribal angle(same as political angle in Kenya). Some will dismiss them automatically. Others will embrace them. Others will toss a coin. Others will view them through the lens of the benighted decades of history of dictatorship in Kenya and suspend judgement.
I initially believed them. Before I paid more attention to something that should be readily obvious to someone like me. Given that it is laughably easy for anyone to create them. I'd rather suspend judgement on them; as if they don't even exist; unless something more compelling comes up. Anyone who cares about the truth would do the same.
You can in VERY few words conjecture coercion. I did many posts before yours. But as it is, Wadi pled guilty and he is in jail.vooke,
There is NOTHING circumstantial in those leaked screenshots suggesting coercion/faked. You are clinging to straws.
Claiming that the State faked FB posts,coerced Wadi to own them and then presented the same as evidence to the courts and secured a successful conviction is lunacy on stilts.
Cops plant guns on DEAD suspects with very good reasons.
Let me predict how it will end. CORD lawyers will plead insanity and won't get the negro to reverse his pleaTermie,Yours is a false dichotomy. It represents nothing anybody is saying. Obienga has already admitted they may be fake. I think.
Occam's Razor. More assumptions mean more BS.
1. Arrest a negro say 10th Dec
2. You have no evidence but you are determined to nail him so you detain him
3. Open a facebook account with near similar name as his
4. Post inflammatory messages
5. Torture or threaten him and basically FORCE him to confess to the fake posts
6. Pretend that you arrested him on 31st, twenty days after. Sentence him to two years for pleading guilty
How plausible is this?
Moi did it so why not?
Let me make my assumptions
1. Wadi posts inflammatory messages
2. Wadi is arrested
3. Wadi readily confesses
4. Wadi pleads guilty
5. Wadi gets 2 years
I don't see what you gain by pushing Obienga to admitting that the posts MAY have been faked. It remains a possibility no different from assuming they was not. So it is all about which assumptions are more sensible.
You are not too far from guessing that he was PAID by Ouru to insult him so that he could be arrested and sentenced to warn others. There were plans to release him immediately AFTER the sentencing and whisk him to Turkey to finish his degree from there. Bleep Warren Commission and his single-bullet theory
The really important question is whether it is beyond insane to think that Wadi might have been coerced by this government to confess? Is it even sensible to think otherwise? It could be argued that one would be out of his mind to think otherwise.
I am not pushing obienga to do anything. I am just airing my views. Clarifying. Taking care of any obfuscation designed to misrepresent them. Asking questions. obienga remains free to believe the muthamaki does not crap.
Regardless of what I believe, I would be biased to claim those links prove Alan Wadi said those things. Even if he did. Conversely, they certainly don't prove he didn't either.
In my opinion, the sensible position is not to assume anything either way about them. Most people will view them from the tribal angle(same as political angle in Kenya). Some will dismiss them automatically. Others will embrace them. Others will toss a coin. Others will view them through the lens of the benighted decades of history of dictatorship in Kenya and suspend judgement.
I initially believed them. Before I paid more attention to something that should be readily obvious to someone like me. Given that it is laughably easy for anyone to create them. I'd rather suspend judgement on them; as if they don't even exist; unless something more compelling comes up. Anyone who cares about the truth would do the same.
vooke,
Can you sumarize what you are responding to? You clearly can't have read what you have quoted.
I'll address the rest of your points, if any and worthwhile, when I wake up.
What is your basis? Do you have official communication from facebook to that effect? Are they facts merely because you say they are?
There are any number reasons facebook can shut down an account including not liking the look of you. The most common one that I have seen is when someone reports impersonation. Exceedingly rarely for hate speech https://www.facebook.com/obamaisgheyashell?fref=nf.I am sure that "my" does not mean "your". I have my reasons including as noted earlier, circumstantial occurrences not to mention the personal admission by the suspect despite him being warned by the court of the consequences of making such admission.Facebook does not arbitrarily shutdown accounts for lack of good reason, not when it is domiciled in a nation where freedom of speech is zealously protected under the constitution as long as it does not violate the law.What is your basis? Do you have official communication from facebook to that effect? Are they facts merely because you say they are?
Right back at youI am asking you to summarize what you think you are responding to.
What are you saying in one sentence?vooke,
Can you sumarize what you are responding to? You clearly can't have read what you have quoted.
I'll address the rest of your points, if any and worthwhile, when I wake up.
On what basis did the police decide Paul Kobia was behaving violently and was therefore mad while a blogger thought to be writing in a certain way was not mad?
Some things that our gov does are indefensible. I pity the Obiengas and likes who feel they have to defend the gov no matter what. Unless of you're paid to defend everything the gov does.On what basis did the police decide Paul Kobia was behaving violently and was therefore mad while a blogger thought to be writing in a certain way was not mad?
Itumbi has a large unlimited budget with no oversight. It is a slush fund which he spends as he wishes.
Your friend Obienga definitely works for Itumbi.Or he is Itumbi