Itumbi Arrested - Peddlers are always dispensable in the mafia

[Nefertiti]

They may have different styles, personae and facades, but the Three Big Amigos are all vultures and vampires - wolf in sheep skin who would sacrifice their mothers for power. None is "better" than the other at the personal level.

Why I support the Handshake and Kieleweke - is not so much Babu - but the parliamentary system. It is known to be better and more inclusive for our partitioned kind of ethnic enclaves. With a pure presidency, the man is an untouchable king. We need to separate the ceremonial "Head of State", "symbol of national unity" and such nonsense - give that to a ceremonial Queen or Emperor. To swear in judges, etc - so that all arms of state are equal. For now Uhuru is senior to Maraga or Muturi - which is wrong.

PM leading a party and spending half his week in parliament - not swearing in ambassadors. People swear allegiance to the "crown" or "state" - which makes them properly independent. Uhuru would be grilled about Itumbi or Jaguar or Baby Pendo by MPs - or even about Miguna - or Huduma Namba. The President of Kenya is inaccessible and unaccountable even to the new parliament.

Once we debunk and decrown the idolatry and pomposity of PORK - and make it a job like all others. PM is a servant - not a god - cause he will be grilled, debated and overruled. If he can't take the hit he can quit like Theresa May. People call Uhuru M?thamaki cause of the royal or supreme nature of Kenyan leadership.

In parliamentary - the guy with all the "respect" and "decorum" is powerless. The one with the power is denied and stripped of royalty, invincibility and impunity. With daily subservience and accountability to independent MPs.

Now, Babu is not a fool but he may be desperate yes. Uhuru may be greedy enough to want to hang on. The alliance needs to deliver the parliamentary system - then Babu or Ruto or Uhuru can gun for it. What happens after is actually not so important. I don't see it as a necessarily bad thing even for Ruto - he can still easily be PM without Gema cause constituencies are fairer and more equitable than one-man-one-vote. People will still trade horses and mules - under a more accountable system. If Uhuru should go home - or continue as PM - that's an argument Ruto or Babu can sell to Kenyans when the time comes.

[vooke]

Holy cow - Look at this other idiot.

Projection is bad thing. I am very open minded. This thread is still live. As far as I know, I have flown with facts as ALWAYS. It's you who has stuck to the same story even when it was debunked.

You story is simple. It what Kibich sold you. Ruto called DCI Sang after receiving the fake letter.

We read from the newspapers (nearly all) that Ruto reported this to Uhuru, who summoned the security council and asked DCI to investigate. Ruto never intended this made public.

You insisted on your storyline - despite the fact that 10 people appeared before DCI - not the 4. You said Ruto people were pushing that storyline in newspapers:)

 I have asked you severally who called PS Njoroge to DCI if all was based on itumbi fake letter.

Is Ps NJoroge named in the fake letter? NO. Are other Ps and CEOs of gov agencies mentioned in the letter HELL NO.

I admitted and pasted the letter - with words written FAKE - was probably "fake" but the content could be TRUTHFUL. They are not MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE.

Now we have tape....with great details of what happened....and you've not addressed that.

THESE TAPES NOW PUT NAMES OF PS NJOROGE & NANCY GITAU - for first time in public.

We wouldn't be here if it was all about a meeting. We are here because Ruto barked/shouted fire and there was nothing.

Why do you shift goals?

To sleep better?

Initially you swore by the letter and even attempted to prove how it tied to the CSs summoned. The letter is debunked and like other Ruto boys you claim it is inconsequential. Itumbi claims to have a video and audio yet all we have so far is garbage

We all know CSs shouldn't politic but they do politic. CSs are annoying you because Uhuru is weilding them against Ruto and it is working

You are an idiot.

The spin that Ruto met Uhuru over the assassination claims came from unnamed Ruto sources. They are the same who claim that Uhuru called DCI.

Why are they faceless?  Because it is all bullshiet.

Contrast that with Munya, a real person who goes on national TV and says DCI told them they received a call from Ruto.

Who is credible? Your shy 'sources' or Munya?

[RV Pundit]

Before your rant like a lunatic about Munya being a real person therefore incapable of lying. Please for 10 time ANSWER the questions. The fake letter talks about 4 Cs and Kibicho. Why was PS Njoroge summoned here.

Now Moron EXPLAIN to ME = where in that fake letter - are the REAL PEOPLE here mentioned listed.

If you have a problem with FACTS - then you're more than idiot.
1) President's Delivery Unit Secretary Andrew Wakahiu
2) Energy PS- Joseph Njoroge.
3) Petroleum PS -Andrew Kamau

You are an idiot.

The spin that Ruto met Uhuru over the assassination claims came from unnamed Ruto sources. They are the same who claim that Uhuru called DCI.

Why are they faceless?  Because it is all bullshiet.

Contrast that with Munya, a real person who goes on national TV and says DCI told them they received a call from Ruto.

Who is credible? Your shy 'sources' or Munya?

[RV Pundit]

#1 - is driven by people who delivered Raila to Uhuru and are trying to leverage it now (so they can wield power & shove aside 50-50 with Ruto) and that has now morphed into trying to extend Uhuru term beyond 2022.#1 - is driven like likes of Nancy Gitau, Kibicho, Mbugua, Uhuru bro Muhoho and of course Raila.

[RV Pundit]

Parliamentary + Devolution sounds really good. Except MPs have such a bad reputation - I doubt Kenyans will trust them. Also, such a system will disadvantage the populous GEMA - and again I doubt they will bite the ruse. That is why I believe Raila is just being used. In fact, Ruto should support such a parliamentary system - because he is very likely to end up with the majority of MPs in 2022 - and will become PM.

GEMA has about 80 legislators in all houses. About 53 MPs I think. That is about 18% of 290 elected MPs spread in about 12 Counties (Lamu,Nairobi,Nakuru,Laikipia,Kiambu,Nyandarua,Muranga,Nyeri,Kirinyanga,Embu,Tharaka and Embu).

Kalenjin have about the same Mps spread in about 12 counties (Nairobi,Bungoma,Transzoia,Nakuru,Uasin Gishu, Baringo, ELgeyo Markwet, West Pokot,Nandi,Kericho,Bomet and Narok)

Luos have about 35 mps spread in 5 counties - Nairobi,Migori,Homabay, Kisumu and Siaya.

 So you see GEMA leverage is gone!If Uhuru is willing to convince GEMA to permanently make it nearly impossible for their own to become Executive PM -including Uhuru himself - then so be it.

Look closely at the parliamentary system -  you see to favor UK like a parliamentary system that is supreme over PORK rather than South Africa like system where PM is supreme over parliament.

Here are countries with a parliamentary system of gov.

They may have different styles, personae and facades, but the Three Big Amigos are all vultures and vampires - wolf in sheep skin who would sacrifice their mothers for power. None is "better" than the other at the personal level.

Why I support the Handshake and Kieleweke - is not so much Babu - but the parliamentary system. It is known to be better and more inclusive for our partitioned kind of ethnic enclaves. With a pure presidency, the man is an untouchable king. We need to separate the ceremonial "Head of State", "symbol of national unity" and such nonsense - give that to a ceremonial Queen or Emperor. To swear in judges, etc - so that all arms of state are equal. For now Uhuru is senior to Maraga or Muturi - which is wrong.

PM leading a party and spending half his week in parliament - not swearing in ambassadors. People swear allegiance to the "crown" or "state" - which makes them properly independent. Uhuru would be grilled about Itumbi or Jaguar or Baby Pendo by MPs - or even about Miguna - or Huduma Namba. The President of Kenya is inaccessible and unaccountable even to the new parliament.

Once we debunk and decrown the idolatry and pomposity of PORK - and make it a job like all others. PM is a servant - not a god - cause he will be grilled, debated and overruled. If he can't take the hit he can quit like Theresa May. People call Uhuru M?thamaki cause of the royal or supreme nature of Kenyan leadership.

In parliamentary - the guy with all the "respect" and "decorum" is powerless. The one with the power is denied and stripped of royalty, invincibility and impunity. With daily subservience and accountability to independent MPs.

Now, Babu is not a fool but he may be desperate yes. Uhuru may be greedy enough to want to hang on. The alliance needs to deliver the parliamentary system - then Babu or Ruto or Uhuru can gun for it. What happens after is actually not so important. I don't see it as a necessarily bad thing even for Ruto - he can still easily be PM without Gema cause constituencies are fairer and more equitable than one-man-one-vote. People will still trade horses and mules - under a more accountable system. If Uhuru should go home - or continue as PM - that's an argument Ruto or Babu can sell to Kenyans when the time comes.

[Nefertiti]

Lol guys i don't think we can have any agreement on "facts" - there is simply too much spin from both sides. Uhuru and Ruto neither confirm nor deny the events - which compounds the problem. Let's just wait for the "investigations" or trials to conclude. I doubt we'll ever know the truth. But I believe this is all about Gema vote - which puts Ruto at a disadvantage. Gema is the fulcrum - as you can see even the women lobbies - Embrace Kenya, Inua Mama - are lead and dominated by Gema women.

Before your rant like a lunatic about Munya being a real person therefore incapable of lying. Please for 10 time ANSWER the questions. The fake letter talks about 4 Cs and Kibicho. Why was PS Njoroge summoned here.

Now Moron EXPLAIN to ME = where in that fake letter - are the REAL PEOPLE here mentioned listed.

If you have a problem with FACTS - then you're more than idiot.
1) President's Delivery Unit Secretary Andrew Wakahiu
2) Energy PS- Joseph Njoroge.
3) Petroleum PS -Andrew Kamau

You are an idiot.

The spin that Ruto met Uhuru over the assassination claims came from unnamed Ruto sources. They are the same who claim that Uhuru called DCI.

Why are they faceless?  Because it is all bullshiet.

Contrast that with Munya, a real person who goes on national TV and says DCI told them they received a call from Ruto.

Who is credible? Your shy 'sources' or Munya?

[Nefertiti]

That's what we need - to remove the tribal supremacy of Gema. In any case the demographic trajectory favors Kalenjin and Somali. Gema would actually gain from parliamentary with their shrinking numbers.

But more importantly, PORK is still a god who cannot be questioned. You can rant in the streets about anything - graft, Itumbis, DCI, etc - Uhuru cannot even be interviewed by media let alone summoned by MPs. Strip the Executive into a JOB - PM - and the royalty nonsense give to a ceremonial figurehead.

That way even Babu will stop being desperate. Unless he just wants his name on the potraits in kiosks, etc. There is nothing glorious about UK PM cause it's tough and sweaty - so only Boris Johnson and serious folks are contenders. In Kenya even some school teacher wants to be PORK. Cause it basically a beatification with lots of impunity. Ruto would not be groveling or be constantly accused of disrespecting PORK - noone is accused of disrespecting Theresa May - only the powerless Queen is respected as national symbol.

Parliamentary any day.

Parliamentary + Devolution sounds really good. Except MPs have such a bad reputation - I doubt Kenyans will trust them. Also, such a system will disadvantage the populous GEMA - and again I doubt they will bite the ruse. That is why I believe Raila is just being used. In fact, Ruto should support such a parliamentary system - because he is very likely to end up with the majority of MPs in 2022 - and will become PM.

GEMA has about 80 legislators in all houses. About 53 MPs I think. That is about 18% of 290 elected MPs spread in about 12 Counties (Lamu,Nairobi,Nakuru,Laikipia,Kiambu,Nyandarua,Muranga,Nyeri,Kirinyanga,Embu,Tharaka and Embu).

Kalenjin have about the same Mps spread in about 12 counties (Nairobi,Bungoma,Transzoia,Nakuru,Uasin Gishu, Baringo, ELgeyo Markwet, West Pokot,Nandi,Kericho,Bomet and Narok)

Luos have about 35 mps spread in 5 counties - Nairobi,Migori,Homabay, Kisumu and Siaya.

 So you see GEMA leverage is gone!If Uhuru is willing to convince GEMA to permanently make it nearly impossible for their own to become Executive PM -including Uhuru himself - then so be it.

Look closely at the parliamentary system -  you see to favor UK like a parliamentary system that is supreme over PORK rather than South Africa like system where PM is supreme over parliament.

Here are countries with a parliamentary system of gov.

[RV Pundit]

I am okay with the parliamentary system but such a system in a country like kenya without a clear tribal majority will be unstable - and I am sure Ruto would like such a system - of course like Raila in 2010 - he may be thinking he is just about to nick the more powerful PORK.

Anyway, if Uhuru and GEMA want it - let us have it. Together with stronger devolution. It a very fair system for everyone.

And Ruto is also ready...six months ago from the rag I read.

At Sugoi on Wednesday, the DP insisted that he's comfortable with parliament system of government but sources indicate he's rooting for executive Prime Minister post.

"I am ready for the referendum. If they want us to go the parliamentary system way, I will be willing to go for it. I don't fear anything. If they want the presidential system, I am equally ready," he said.

That's what we need - to remove the tribal supremacy of Gema. In any case the demographic trajectory favors Kalenjin and Somali. Gema would actually gain from parliamentary with their shrinking numbers.

But more importantly, PORK is still a god who cannot be questioned. You can rant in the streets about anything - graft, Itumbis, DCI, etc - Uhuru cannot even be interviewed by media let alone summoned by MPs. Strip the Executive into a JOB - PM - and the royalty nonsense give to a ceremonial figurehead.

That way even Babu will stop being desperate. Unless he just wants his name on the potraits in kiosks, etc. There is nothing glorious about UK PM cause it's tough and sweaty - so only Boris Johnson and serious folks are contenders. In Kenya even some school teacher wants to be PORK. Cause it basically a beatification with lots of impunity. Ruto would not be groveling or be constantly accused of disrespecting PORK - noone is accused of disrespecting Theresa May - only the powerless Queen is respected as national symbol.

Parliamentary any day.

[Nefertiti]

I wish you had a link to that quote 

Yes Ruto got hubris like Babu 2010. But so long as non-Gema is split between Babu and Ruto - cohesive Gema has advantage in presidential. I mean we've already had 2 Gema PORKs since Moi - despite the usual whining about "Gema fatigue" - it just reality. Ruto or Babu can more easily win PM than PORK.

What's going to happen? BBI will come up with Exec PM, deputies, opposition leader, etc - plus 45% devolution, 1/3 women, etc. Basically very hard to oppose.

If Ruto opposes he will wind up with 30% ala 2010. If he supports, it gets 90% yes. Either way PM is a new ballgame - compared to PORK - and there is no guarantee about who will nick it.

I am okay with the parliamentary system but such a system in a country like kenya without a clear tribal majority will be unstable - and I am sure Ruto would like such a system - of course like Raila in 2010 - he may be thinking he is just about to nick the more powerful PORK.

Anyway, if Uhuru and GEMA want it - let us have it. Together with stronger devolution. It a very fair system for everyone.

And Ruto is also ready...six months ago from the rag I read.

At Sugoi on Wednesday, the DP insisted that he's comfortable with parliament system of government but sources indicate he's rooting for executive Prime Minister post.

"I am ready for the referendum. If they want us to go the parliamentary system way, I will be willing to go for it. I don't fear anything. If they want the presidential system, I am equally ready," he said.

[Nefertiti]

Seems DCI is focused on treason as demanded by Ruto


7  HOURS AGO

https://mobile.nation.co.ke/news/Itumbi-could-face--treason--charges/1950946-5186142-sb3b0o/index.html

[Dear Mami]

The Presidential system is seen through rosey eyes because of the U.S. But it isn't even good for Americans either. Just their corporations. There's a reason they lag behind the rest of the first world when it comes to the living standards of their people. Their politicians are not directly accountable to the people, despite elections. Parliamentary system is not a magic bullet either; I think most of our issues will persist even if we institute it: the only advantage I see is returning the entire executive back to Parliament to be told , "Kimunya must go" every month or whenever something goes wrong.

[vooke]

Before your rant like a lunatic about Munya being a real person therefore incapable of lying. Please for 10 time ANSWER the questions. The fake letter talks about 4 Cs and Kibicho. Why was PS Njoroge summoned here.

Now Moron EXPLAIN to ME = where in that fake letter - are the REAL PEOPLE here mentioned listed.

If you have a problem with FACTS - then you're more than idiot.
1) President's Delivery Unit Secretary Andrew Wakahiu
2) Energy PS- Joseph Njoroge.
3) Petroleum PS -Andrew Kamau

You are an idiot.

The spin that Ruto met Uhuru over the assassination claims came from unnamed Ruto sources. They are the same who claim that Uhuru called DCI.

Why are they faceless?  Because it is all bullshiet.

Contrast that with Munya, a real person who goes on national TV and says DCI told them they received a call from Ruto.

Who is credible? Your shy 'sources' or Munya?

[RV Pundit]

I use bold to HIGHLIGHT and BRING  YOUR ATTENTION to what you've been skirting around. Again I will ask you where in that letter does it talk about Andrew Kamau, Joseph Njoroge. You're not going to admit it because it destroys your entire theory. Whoever reported to DCI - therefore did not use that fake letter alone - otherwise only 4 cs and 1 Ps would have been summoned. That makes you more than boy and idiot. You're just a joke.

[RV Pundit]

What is good for goose is good for the gander

Whatever systems - I think Ruto will nick it. It all boils down to hard work, the resources and political capital invested. Raila is tired and has basically exhausted ODM momentum.  GEMA has spent decades opposing the parliamentary system and federalism - and only accepted devolution after 2007 - and so for them to turn around & accept all these ODM BOMAS ideas - would be pretty HUGE.

Obviously, I do not see GEMA accepting Raila's BBI ideas - I haven't heard any of GEMA present those kinds of proposals. It only ODM who have those ideas. All we have heard is the need for the referendum.

So again let see what BBI has in store for us. Based on that I think Ruto will decide whether to oppose it or not. If we get BOMAS - parliamentary + stronger devolution - nice. Personally, I really only care about FEDERALISM - stripping Nairobi and having counties becomes states. That should solve the powerful PORK problem - and we won't need Ex PM.

Most definitely Ruto will oppose it - he loses nothing if he loses as he did in 2010. He gains if Uhuru's doesn't get to have another go in whatever form.

I wish you had a link to that quote 

Yes Ruto got hubris like Babu 2010. But so long as non-Gema is split between Babu and Ruto - cohesive Gema has advantage in presidential. I mean we've already had 2 Gema PORKs since Moi - despite the usual whining about "Gema fatigue" - it just reality. Ruto or Babu can more easily win PM than PORK.

What's going to happen? BBI will come up with Exec PM, deputies, opposition leader, etc - plus 45% devolution, 1/3 women, etc. Basically very hard to oppose.

If Ruto opposes he will wind up with 30% ala 2010. If he supports, it gets 90% yes. Either way PM is a new ballgame - compared to PORK - and there is no guarantee about who will nick it.

[RV Pundit]

Precisely.It just makes our MPs a little more powerful. Right now Uhuru has basically ignored them. But in parliamentary systems - the bribe pipeline will be flowing. I wish we do not lose the judicial and independent bodies independence...I mean the non-political wings of gov. The political wing - will always reflect the politics of the land.

The Presidential system is seen through rosey eyes because of the U.S. But it isn't even good for Americans either. Just their corporations. There's a reason they lag behind the rest of the first world when it comes to the living standards of their people. Their politicians are not directly accountable to the people, despite elections. Parliamentary system is not a magic bullet either; I think most of our issues will persist even if we institute it: the only advantage I see is returning the entire executive back to Parliament to be told , "Kimunya must go" every month or whenever something goes wrong.

[vooke]

I use bold to HIGHLIGHT and BRING  YOUR ATTENTION to what you've been skirting around. Again I will ask you where in that letter does it talk about Andrew Kamau, Joseph Njoroge. You're not going to admit it because it destroys your entire theory. Whoever reported to DCI - therefore did not use that fake letter alone - otherwise only 4 cs and 1 Ps would have been summoned. That makes you more than boy and idiot. You're just a joke.

[vooke]

The Presidential system is seen through rosey eyes because of the U.S. But it isn't even good for Americans either. Just their corporations. There's a reason they lag behind the rest of the first world when it comes to the living standards of their people. Their politicians are not directly accountable to the people, despite elections. Parliamentary system is not a magic bullet either; I think most of our issues will persist even if we institute it: the only advantage I see is returning the entire executive back to Parliament to be told , "Kimunya must go" every month or whenever something goes wrong.

To be honest I have long concluded that there is no tribalism & corruption proof system. We have shitty value system that will always trump over whatever checks we put in place

[RV Pundit]

I use bold to HIGHLIGHT and BRING  YOUR ATTENTION to what you've been skirting around. Again I will ask you where in that letter does it talk about Andrew Kamau, Joseph Njoroge. You're not going to admit it because it destroys your entire theory. Whoever reported to DCI - therefore did not use that fake letter alone - otherwise only 4 cs and 1 Ps would have been summoned. That makes you more than boy and idiot. You're just a joke.

All that because Munya told you so.

[vooke]

I use bold to HIGHLIGHT and BRING  YOUR ATTENTION to what you've been skirting around. Again I will ask you where in that letter does it talk about Andrew Kamau, Joseph Njoroge. You're not going to admit it because it destroys your entire theory. Whoever reported to DCI - therefore did not use that fake letter alone - otherwise only 4 cs and 1 Ps would have been summoned. That makes you more than boy and idiot. You're just a joke.

All that because Munya told you so.

Munya is a real person unlike those Ruto roaches who are too shy to be named.

In other news
Itumbi will survive. Treason is a ridiculously radioactive crime.