Peoples republic of Kenya Vs Central republic

[patel]

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[RVtitem]

Kenya ripe for real federalism.

To hell with fake devilution as currently constituted

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Environment is huge.  Humongous!  Kenya is already fragile in that respect even without messing up water towers. That said, it affects everybody.   It does not only affect the location it's happening.  It should be a national government responsibility.  I am not sure what the constitution says about it if anything.

[RV Pundit]

Poverty is even more humongous. Without charcoal - Ukambani would basically starve, kids won't go to schools and their economy would collapse. In Ukambani - outside Charcoal - the next economic activity is probably hunting. Ngilu is condemning his people to poverty. That is all. There is huge demand for charcoal in Kenya & world-wide- and charcoal traders will find source of that charcoal - even if it's Kismayu. In the meantime what will Ukambani feed on?

Environment is huge.  Humongous!  Kenya is already fragile in that respect even without messing up water towers. That said, it affects everybody.   It does not only affect the location it's happening.  It should be a national government responsibility.  I am not sure what the constitution says about it if anything.

[Nefertiti]

I agree with bitmask the environment is more important than the Kitui economy or some Limuru charcoalmen. GoK and counties need to invest in alternative fuel - gasoline, biogas, elec, etc. No to logging and charcoal trade.

[Nefertiti]

Of course Mr patel here sees everything through the parochial NRM prism.

[Kim Jong-Un's Pajama Pants]

Poverty is even more humongous. Without charcoal - Ukambani would basically starve, kids won't go to schools and their economy would collapse. In Ukambani - outside Charcoal - the next economic activity is probably hunting. Ngilu is condemning his people to poverty. That is all. There is huge demand for charcoal in Kenya & world-wide- and charcoal traders will find source of that charcoal - even if it's Kismayu. In the meantime what will Ukambani feed on?

Environment is huge.  Humongous!  Kenya is already fragile in that respect even without messing up water towers. That said, it affects everybody.   It does not only affect the location it's happening.  It should be a national government responsibility.  I am not sure what the constitution says about it if anything.

[Nefertiti]

One hopes Mr Tobiko will be done shortly with an elaborate program. It seems he's been all over banning logging and very eloquent too. With an entire apparatus - Forest Service, the forest police, NEMA, anti-logging lobby, NGOs - this should not be a big challenge. He is very ambitious and can handle the inevitable political backlash.

[bryan275]

Kila mtu achome makaa kwao.  If the kamba want to carry on and export it, it's their issue...if they choose to quit the biashara now, that too is their issue.

Kaparo is just another jubilee harassment tool by the electoral fraudsters.

[RV Pundit]

You and Robina come from the school of thought that "enviroment" in this case forests or trees should not be "touched". I half expected you guys would really engage some thinking into this but it's usual knee-jerk reaction from urban elite tree huggers.

Charcoal is big business in Africa and Kenya. It probably the most traded commodity. Majority of people depend on firewood and charcoal to cook their githeri. I don't know the % but anything upto 90% is possible. The way forward for Ngilu and others is not a blanket ban of charcoal. It find sustainable way for charcoal business to thrive. If you plant trees or have trees in your farm - and there is market for charcoal - go ahead-
cut the trees - and - make some money - and that will be incentive to plant more trees or leave the land for trees to grow.In our place - there is huge market for firewood that is to process tea (nearly all companies dumped expensive electricity & coal for firewood) - and people have incentive to grow trees!

Forests & trees should and will be used by humans - they just need to be used sustainably

Ngilu is just going to condemn many of his people to poverty.Finding alternative livelihood for folks is no joke. There is nothing she'll achieve climate wise. She should be working to make kitui the leading producer of charcoal - by building modern kilns and producing briquettes (that has global demand) - and encouraging people to engage in agro-forestry. Remove charcoal - and what do they honestly have - the desertification is global cyclical phenomenan way bigger than Ngilu to handle...humans didn't make the ice age    these things are bigger than us.

[hk]

Forest cover by counties https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Kenya-lakeside-counties-with-no-forests/1056-3071560-vb8sdz/index.html . If citizens can derive economic benefit from planting trees it'll lead to increased planting of trees. As pundit indicated in tea growing areas farmers plant trees because there is a ready market. In Nyeri farmers plant trees for timber and firewood. In kitui they should probably invest in fast growing trees that can survive harsh climate. The problem is unsustainable tree harvesting without replenishment.

[RV Pundit]

Btw whatever happened to "mathenge" plant in Baringo - some investors had set up a plant to generate electricity. That is what Kitui and Ukambani need. Mathenge that can grow in there or Sisal that can do well in such enviroment. Obviously if you criminalize charcoal - why would I grow Mathenge? Kitui will remain hopelessly a desert.

Forest cover by counties https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Kenya-lakeside-counties-with-no-forests/1056-3071560-vb8sdz/index.html . If citizens can derive economic benefit from planting trees it'll lead to increased planting of trees. As pundit indicated in tea growing areas farmers plant trees because there is a ready market. In Nyeri farmers plant trees for timber and firewood. In kitui they should probably invest in fast growing trees that can survive harsh climate. The problem is unsustainable tree harvesting without replenishment.

[hk]

Btw whatever happened to "mathenge" plant in Baringo - some investors had set up a plant to generate electricity. That is what Kitui and Ukambani need. Mathenge that can grow in there or Sisal that can do well in such enviroment. Obviously if you criminalize charcoal - why would I grow Mathenge? Kitui will remain hopelessly a desert.

Forest cover by counties https://www.nation.co.ke/news/Kenya-lakeside-counties-with-no-forests/1056-3071560-vb8sdz/index.html . If citizens can derive economic benefit from planting trees it'll lead to increased planting of trees. As pundit indicated in tea growing areas farmers plant trees because there is a ready market. In Nyeri farmers plant trees for timber and firewood. In kitui they should probably invest in fast growing trees that can survive harsh climate. The problem is unsustainable tree harvesting without replenishment.

Or agave plant to produce Kenyan Tequila.

[vooke]

You and Robina come from the school of thought that "enviroment" in this case forests or trees should not be "touched". I half expected you guys would really engage some thinking into this but it's usual knee-jerk reaction from urban elite tree huggers.

Charcoal is big business in Africa and Kenya. It probably the most traded commodity. Majority of people depend on firewood and charcoal to cook their githeri. I don't know the % but anything upto 90% is possible. The way forward for Ngilu and others is not a blanket ban of charcoal. It find sustainable way for charcoal business to thrive. If you plant trees or have trees in your farm - and there is market for charcoal - go ahead-
cut the trees - and - make some money - and that will be incentive to plant more trees or leave the land for trees to grow.In our place - there is huge market for firewood that is to process tea (nearly all companies dumped expensive electricity & coal for firewood) - and people have incentive to grow trees!

Forests & trees should and will be used by humans - they just need to be used sustainably

Ngilu is just going to condemn many of his people to poverty.Finding alternative livelihood for folks is no joke. There is nothing she'll achieve climate wise. She should be working to make kitui the leading producer of charcoal - by building modern kilns and producing briquettes (that has global demand) - and encouraging people to engage in agro-forestry. Remove charcoal - and what do they honestly have - the desertification is global cyclical phenomenan way bigger than Ngilu to handle...humans didn't make the ice age    these things are bigger than us.

This is the same argument as poaching.
The problem is with our corruption and laziness, we will guzzle more free than we can plant

[RV Pundit]

How about you explain how this the same as poaching. Unless you mean the same thing as allowing trade in some wild animals - where there is over-production - like in case of Botswana elephants?

Kitui should just work to license charcoal - that mean before you cut trees and make charcoal - you need a permit - and the same case with transporting it.

Charcoal has been banned in kenya for years but the demand & supply will never subside. There is real huge demand for charcoal well until Robina come up with new cheap way to cook Githeri

This is the same argument as poaching.
The problem is with our corruption and laziness, we will guzzle more free than we can plant

[Kichwa]

Does it matter which prism he is looking at if it from if it also happens that he is correct.  Pundit looked at it with Jubilee glasses and got it wrong. Burning trees to make Charcoal is a horrible thing to do to the environment and it should be illegal just like brewing changaa or growing marihuana to feed your kids. It has to stop and folks have to find other means of supporting their families.

Of course Mr patel here sees everything through the parochial NRM prism.

[Georgesoros]

Kenya is in a horrible state when it comes to environmental issues. Driving up and down to the Mau escarpment is an experience a tourist will only do once. Trucks, and Matatus spew smog as if there is no tomorrow. By the time you get to Narok, the amount of smog in your lungs is horrible. Meanwhile, NEMA is busy arresting plastic bag users while trees come down en masse. Cities are allowed to spew sewer into open public places without treatment. In the end, Someone will have to pay for all these mess.

[Nefertiti]

Pundit has been praising Uhuruto for rolling out powerlines countrywide. Well, this power should be cheap enough for lighting, cooking, heating and all domestic needs. It must be good enough too for light industry. That must be GoK and counties' new objective. Of course change of economic proportions is hard, and the Environment CS should give leadership. The Kenyan forest cover is at 1%; the global standard is 10%  If Madam Ngilu's actions trigger this forever overly due debate she is in my good books.

[RV Pundit]

It's a process - you cannot overturn charcoal in a single day - it will take in my estimation 30 yrs or more before folks stop cooking with firewood & charcoal - even if electricity is given out for free. You'd still need to give out oven and cooker for free; Sometime you guys need to step out of utopia. Ngilu is doing nothing - more than feeding the kikuyu hate machine - with some charcoal.

Pundit has been praising Uhuruto for rolling out powerlines countrywide. Well, this power should be cheap enough for lighting, cooking, heating and all domestic needs. It must be good enough too for light industry. That must be GoK and counties' new objective. Of course change of economic proportions is hard, and the Environment CS should give leadership. The Kenyan forest cover is at 1%; the global standard is 10%  If Madam Ngilu's actions trigger this forever overly due debate she is in my good books.

[Nefertiti]

Don't worry am working on that - utopia - a post-Development world where folks don't need to work for a living. This is the vision of robots and industrie 4.0; it can be done in less than 30 yrs.

It's a process - you cannot overturn charcoal in a single day - it will take in my estimation 30 yrs or more before folks stop cooking with firewood & charcoal - even if electricity is given out for free. You'd still need to give out oven and cooker for free; Sometime you guys need to step out of utopia. Ngilu is doing nothing - more than feeding the kikuyu hate machine - with some charcoal.